8c 6c on the button
 

Average LP game
No exceptional reads

Hero on the Button with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds
UTG+1 folds
UTG+2 calls
MP1 folds
MP2 folds
LP1 calls
LP2 calls
Hero calls
SB calls
BB checks

Flop (6sb) [ J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ]:
SB checks
BB bets
UTG+2 folds
LP1 calls
LP2 calls
Hero raises
SB folds
BB calls
LP1 calls
LP2 calls

Turn (7bb) [ Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ]
BB checks
LP1 checks
LP2 checks
Hero ?

Re: 8c 6c on the button
 

checks obv

Re: 8c 6c on the button
 

check and it's not close.

Re: 8c 6c on the button
 

I'm guessing your question revolves more around pot equity than folding equity or the like (of which you have zero). Assuming that you are holding the best flush draw, a bet here would have neutral equity if all 3 opponents call again. Yes, you picked up a gutshot, but it's to the ass end and I wouldn't even factor that into the equation; make the Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] a 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and then we have a value bet.

All that said, I think this is a pretty textbook example of when to take your free card. It's not hardly certain that nobody else has a higher flush draw, while not likely it is possible that someone's getting ready for a check/raise, and as I said, you are never going to get all 3 opponents to fold by firing two more barrels. So you don't have enough pot equity to bet your draw, and you don't have enough folding equity to semibluff...check it through.

Re: 8c 6c on the button
 

* grunch *

I take the free card here every time. Nice job on raising the flop for it as well as for equity but on the turn you've got absolutely nothing and it's unlikely you're going to fold 3 other players.

Re: 8c 6c on the button
 

surrender

Re: 8c 6c on the button
 

I think this is why someone once told me that having position on your opponents was good.

Check.

Re: 8c 6c on the button
 

Check > fold> > bet

Re: 8c 6c on the button
 

Any 5 or 7 on the turn probably gets me to bet again, but here checking is the best move.

Re: 8c 6c on the button
 

[ QUOTE ]

Check > fold> > bet

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf? Folding is not better than betting. Check is obv. best.

Re: 8c 6c on the button
 

Any other opinions?

Re: 8c 6c on the button
 

[ QUOTE ]
Any other opinions?

[/ QUOTE ]

betting again on the turn is retarded.

Re: 8c 6c on the button
 

[ QUOTE ]
Any other opinions?

[/ QUOTE ]l

When three posters with 3000+ posts all say the same thing they are probably right. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 8c 6c on the button
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any other opinions?

[/ QUOTE ]l

When three posters with 3000+ posts all say the same thing they are probably right. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if this was meant half in jest or not, but it's wrong. Number of posts is not indicative of quality of play/analysis. I mean nothing against the 3 posters referenced on this thread, just that the statement above is pretty meaningless.

However, in this case they are all definitely right. I can't believe this thread is still going. It's a standard free card play.

Re: 8c 6c on the button
 

[ QUOTE ]
checks obv

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
check and it's not close.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is why someone once told me that having position on your opponents was good.

Check.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
* grunch *

I take the free card here every time. Nice job on raising the flop for it as well as for equity but on the turn you've got absolutely nothing and it's unlikely you're going to fold 3 other players.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing your question revolves more around pot equity than folding equity or the like (of which you have zero). Assuming that you are holding the best flush draw, a bet here would have neutral equity if all 3 opponents call again. Yes, you picked up a gutshot, but it's to the ass end and I wouldn't even factor that into the equation; make the Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] a 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and then we have a value bet.

All that said, I think this is a pretty textbook example of when to take your free card. It's not hardly certain that nobody else has a higher flush draw, while not likely it is possible that someone's getting ready for a check/raise, and as I said, you are never going to get all 3 opponents to fold by firing two more barrels. So you don't have enough pot equity to bet your draw, and you don't have enough folding equity to semibluff...check it through.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any other opinions?

[/ QUOTE ]

betting again on the turn is retarded.

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] This makes me feel good about getting advice (about small stakes holdem that is) from you guys. I'm glad that you found it obvious.

Nice work!

Re: 8c 6c on the button
 

check. I guess you have the urge to steal. But a call outta 3 peeps means you're behind 99%, I would say. Even if a club comes, not necessarily good at this point. If you even had a gutshot added to the draw, it would be much more of a consideration, b/c then it's really becoming a steal play, but guising a pot build.

Person who said fold as 2nd option needs to keep brushing teeth and stop playing poker.

Re: 8c 6c on the button
 

[ QUOTE ]
But a call outta 3 peeps means you're behind 99%, I would say.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're being generous.

[ QUOTE ]
Even if a club comes, not necessarily good at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

A club would be the best thing that could happen on the river.

[ QUOTE ]
If you even had a gutshot added to the draw,

[/ QUOTE ]

He does.

[ QUOTE ]
Person who said fold as 2nd option needs to keep brushing teeth and stop playing poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least you got that right. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

-McGee

Re: 8c 6c on the button
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any other opinions?

[/ QUOTE ]l

When three posters with 3000+ posts all say the same thing they are probably right. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if this was meant half in jest or not, but it's wrong. Number of posts is not indicative of quality of play/analysis. I mean nothing against the 3 posters referenced on this thread, just that the statement above is pretty meaningless.

However, in this case they are all definitely right. I can't believe this thread is still going. It's a standard free card play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was 100% serious. Obviously I don't think that everybody who posts a lot is always right but I guarentee you that the average poster with 2000ish+ posts (and I'm mostly stratigy posts - not OOT) is miles ahead of the average poster with 200 posts.

Post count and skill level probaably are not directly coorelated but those who post alot tend to work hard on their game and probably have been doing so for quite a while.

Re: 8c 6c on the button
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any other opinions?

[/ QUOTE ]l

When three posters with 3000+ posts all say the same thing they are probably right. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if this was meant half in jest or not, but it's wrong. Number of posts is not indicative of quality of play/analysis. I mean nothing against the 3 posters referenced on this thread, just that the statement above is pretty meaningless.

However, in this case they are all definitely right. I can't believe this thread is still going. It's a standard free card play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was 100% serious. Obviously I don't think that everybody who posts a lot is always right but I guarentee you that the average poster with 2000ish+ posts (and I'm mostly stratigy posts - not OOT) is miles ahead of the average poster with 200 posts.

Post count and skill level probaably are not directly coorelated but those who post alot tend to work hard on their game and probably have been doing so for quite a while.

[/ QUOTE ]

Remain calm. I wasn't inferring that the current posts are incorrect. I was just seeing if anyone had a different argument. I know what my answer is an wanted to see if others answer differed from mine and why.