German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

I spent last week in Germany for work. I stayed in a city and commuted to a test facility out in the suburbs (well, more like a village) via the autobahn every day. German highway drivers in general are aggressive, aware, and concise in their driving patterns. People drive in the right lane until there is someone in front of them going slower, at which point they move into the left lane, pass the appropriate vehicle(s), and move back into the right lane. When they commit to passing, they pass - no driving ever-so-slightly faster than the car you are passing and taking a full 5 minutes to complete the pass - they just commit and do it. If, while they are passing, a faster vehicle happens up behind them while they are passing multiple vehicles, they move back to the right into the slower traffic at the first opportunity to allow the faster vehicle(s) to pass, and then move back to the left to continue their own passing. The majority of traffic is in the rightmost lane, and the amount of vehicles per lane decreases from right to left. To be fair, there are people who stick to the left lane, but those are generally the people driving obscenely fast (no speed limit on most sections of the autobahn) and passing everyone anyway. If by chance someone faster came up behind them, they would surely move as well. In an entire week of driving, I did not see a single driver pass somebody on the right (though I did see one attempt promptly shut down by the passee). It’s a great system, and consistently made for a pleasant, enjoyable commute where I could drive whatever speed I was comfortable with without worrying about anyone caring or slowing me down.

Upon returning home, I got on the Massachusetts Turnpike to visit my father for father’s day, and 25 minutes later came to a frustrating conclusion: American drivers are unbelievably stupid. They cram the left lane completely full and refuse to pull to the right for anyone. If someone faster comes up behind them, most people blissfully ignore any opportunity to pull over and let them by. This of course forces faster drivers to resort to passing on the right and weaving, which in turn results in “policing” by the originally offending vehicles who feel they are going fast enough and deserve to be in the left lane, and now will go to great lengths not to let you back in. Accordingly, the traffic pattern is completely backwards: pretty much nobody stays in the right lane, there are a bunch of cars cruising relatively slowly in the middle lane, and the left lane is jammed full bumper-to-bumper with cars barely moving faster than the middle lane. It’s like people think “I’m not driving in the right lane, that’s for slow cars. No you idiots – the right lanes are for cruising. The lane(s) you are in are for passing. I was at my wit’s end by the time I finished my ~30 mile ride, and couldn’t stop thinking about it.

So yeah this is basically a rant, and I know this all seems obvious, but when you drive on a highway system that actually works as intended and moves traffic along in a consistent manner, and everyone participating understands and employs the rules of the road, it really makes you wonder why Americans are so challenged by what should be an intuitively-obvious system.

So why do Americans drive like idiots? And how do we fix it? Or is it just a Massachusetts thing? Is it better in other parts of the country?

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report
 

In Italy on the autostradas, everyone drives exactly the way you described, (nice description by the way.)

Now, your question is how do you make all you seppo's drive the same way? Well, I assume that you've only noticed this about American drivers since you've come back from Europe, so this bellies the fact that before you left you drove in the same way without realising it. So the answer to your question is send all of your fellow countrymen over to Europe on driving information tours.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report
 

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Well, I assume that you've only noticed this about American drivers since you've come back from Europe, so this bellies the fact that before you left you drove in the same way without realising it.

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No, it has always bothered me, but I always assumed it was basic human nature to drive like idiots and I dealt with it. But now I have seen that this does not have to be the case, so I am far more frustrated by it than ever before.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report
 

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Well, I assume that you've only noticed this about American drivers since you've come back from Europe, so this bellies the fact that before you left you drove in the same way without realising it.

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No, it has always bothered me, but I always assumed it was basic human nature to drive like idiots and I dealt with it. But now I have seen that this does not have to be the case, so I am far more frustrated by it than ever before.

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OK, well what do Americans do when confronted with injustice, inequality and bad driving habits? They get a superhero to take care of it. Seeing as no current superhero can solve this situation I recommend that you become, "Highway Man". Get yourself some super stuff and sort the bastards out.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

Americans are selfish, claim ownership over whatever space they are inhabiting at the time and defend that claim ruthlessly. Not a good cultural background for an activity like driving which, as you correctly imply, involves giving way at times for the sake of the community.

Yes I am one.

KJS

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

Very succinctly put! So highways are merely a microcosm of the very societies they interconnect...

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

Ray,

I would look for things to improve in the very near future now that God has thrown down the Ten Commandments... for driving.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

It's not that American drivers drive discourteously, its that we have a different courtesy. Unlike the Autobahn, almost all roads here have speed limits, and for good reason. The real [censored] are the ones who are trying to do 80mph on a urban interstate. If it takes someone "only" doing 65 in the left lane in a 55 zone to get them to slow down, good.

My personal driving habits are to drive the posted limit or 5 over and try to stay right. However, I don't feel the need to break the speed limit to get out of someone's way if they are breaking the law and there's a slow truck in the right lane.

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which in turn results in “policing” by the originally offending vehicles who feel they are going fast enough and deserve to be in the left lane, and now will go to great lengths not to let you back in.

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While changing lanes to block someone is obviously assholeish and dangerous, the "originally offending vehicles" probably were going fast enough and do in fact deserve the left lane. Personally, I hardly ever see lane changing to block someone happen.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

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It's not that American drivers drive discourteously, its that we have a different courtesy.

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couldn't agree less

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

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Very succinctly put! So highways are merely a microcosm of the very societies they interconnect...

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So are national football teams. The samba boys of Brazil, tactically strong Germans, physical Americans, etc..

KJS

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

FWIW, I've read that the traffic laws in Germany are much stricter, e.g. it's actually illegal to "cruise" in the left lane or pass on the right on the autobahn, and you get hit with a very hefty fine for doing so. Maybe if this stuff were against the law in the U.S. fewer people would do it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobah...nd_enforcement

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

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My personal driving habits are to drive the posted limit or 5 over and try to stay right.


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Irrespective of the traffic flow speed? If so, then you're one of the crazies out there.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

Whenever a German driver approaches from behind, I ALWAYS move immediately over.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

I believe the German's also actualy educate their citizens about how to drive before giving them a license. It doesn't hurt that there are what, 12 German's and about 8 miles of highway in the whole country. (or whatever)

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

lol, funny thread (rant).


ummmmm, since everyone in germany is such a great driver, there must be many more of them on the roads then in America, right? wait...no? there are hundreds of thousands more drivers here??? NO WAI!!!! I am shocked!

Also...I'm guessing that you only need to be in the fast lane once and have somebody zoom up on you doing 150 mph before you decide for yourself that it isn't a great idea to be doing 75 in the fast lane there.

lol, please drive down 101 or 880 in CA someday and tell me you think it would be better, safer or faster if everyone were in the slow lane except when passing....



Germany != US

...go figure.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

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Whenever a German driver approaches from behind, I ALWAYS move immediately over.

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The fact that this account has existed for 16 months is awesome.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

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ummmmm, since everyone in germany is such a great driver, there must be many more of them on the roads then in America, right? wait...no? there are hundreds of thousands more drivers here??? NO WAI!!!! I am shocked!

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ummmmm, you do realize the united states is geographically 26x bigger than germany, right? so yeah, no kidding there are more drivers overall. but come on, it's not like germany is a third-world country - people do drive cars and their highways are plenty crowded...they're just FAR more efficient at moving the traffic along.

and obviously i am talking about normal highway driving - clearly this system (or any other) won't help in typical LA (or Boston) rush-hour type traffic...

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

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Whenever a German driver approaches from behind, I ALWAYS move immediately over.

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The fact that this account has existed for 16 months is awesome.

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The fact that this account has existed for one month is shocking.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

The highway issue you are talking about is a national thing. However as a sidenote I must say that people in Massachusetts are terrible drivers in general.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

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lol, please drive down 101 or 880 in CA someday and tell me you think it would be better, safer or faster if everyone were in the slow lane except when passing....

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It would be better, safer, and faster if everyone were in the slow lane except when passing.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

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FWIW, I've read that the traffic laws in Germany are much stricter, e.g. it's actually illegal to "cruise" in the left lane or pass on the right on the autobahn, and you get hit with a very hefty fine for doing so. Maybe if this stuff were against the law in the U.S. fewer people would do it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobah...nd_enforcement

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I have lived in Germany, and the above quote is the definitive reason that the German drivers are "better" than in the U.S. Their rules are stricter, and more strictly enforced.

In addition to marked highway patrols, there are also frequent and diligent patrols by unmarked vehicles. Also, they have really cracked down on aggressive driving as well, so if you do try to pass and a car does not pull over, you cannot give the brights or honk, which was the traditional way to say gtf out of the way or die on the Autobahn.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

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lol, please drive down 101 or 880 in CA someday and tell me you think it would be better, safer or faster if everyone were in the slow lane except when passing....

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It would be better, safer, and faster if everyone were in the slow lane except when passing.

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except of course when somebody needed to get on or off the freeway and there was nothing but a cluster [censored] of cars in the way with 2 open lanes to the left of them.

other then that "minor detail", you are probably right.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

On American urban highways, the middle lane often functions as the 'right lane', with the right lane being a kind of merging on/off lane, as well as a passing lane for those adventerous enough to try to pass that way. On four-lane highways, the relationship gets more complicated.

Still, people just don't get out of the way in the left lane - it's always amusing to me to see State Police who routinely drive 80+ in the left lane try to move [censored] drivers over who don't understand that the cop doesn't care if you speed up to get out of his way, so long as you just get out of his way. People don't pay enough attention on the road, and they're convinced that every other driver is wrong/bad (e.g. George Carlin's brilliant idiot/maniac distinction - everyone who drives slower is an idiot, everyone who drives faster is a maniac).

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

Where the hell did you drive? The left lane is [censored] polluted by slow ppl who refuse to use the right lane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Having to commute to Frankfurt or somewhere near Köln is [censored] [censored] [censored]!

And to rules, etc: there is a rule to use the right-most lane if possible (e.g. it's free). Nobody gives a damn, and it's rearely enforced. There is a rule regarding the distance between vehicles, especially the distance a truck has to keep: they usually give a [censored] and would just crash into the vehicle before them if it surprisingly slows down (there are more examples like these two).

Maybe driving in germany is still more fun than in america, but it's certainly not as funny as you describe.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

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Where the hell did you drive? The left lane is [censored] polluted by slow ppl who refuse to use the right lane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Having to commute to Frankfurt or somewhere near Köln is [censored] [censored] [censored]!

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the A5 in the southwestern part of the country

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

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lol, please drive down 101 or 880 in CA someday and tell me you think it would be better, safer or faster if everyone were in the slow lane except when passing....

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It would be better, safer, and faster if everyone were in the slow lane except when passing.

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except of course when somebody needed to get on or off the freeway and there was nothing but a cluster [censored] of cars in the way with 2 open lanes to the left of them.

other then that "minor detail", you are probably right.

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Pretty sure that would count as a passing situation.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

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Where the hell did you drive? The left lane is [censored] polluted by slow ppl who refuse to use the right lane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Having to commute to Frankfurt or somewhere near Köln is [censored] [censored] [censored]!

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the A5 in the southwestern part of the country

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You gotta be kiddin. Frankfurt, Darmstadt and so on? Trafficjam every morning? 45mins for 20km?
Dang it feels weird being leveled ... [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

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You gotta be kiddin. Frankfurt, Darmstadt and so on? Trafficjam every morning? 45mins for 20km?
Dang it feels weird being leveled ... [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

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no traffic jams where i was man...we started work pretty early every morning though so maybe i just missed them.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

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FWIW, I've read that the traffic laws in Germany are much stricter, e.g. it's actually illegal to "cruise" in the left lane or pass on the right on the autobahn, and you get hit with a very hefty fine for doing so. Maybe if this stuff were against the law in the U.S. fewer people would do it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobah...nd_enforcement

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In 2000, I was driving south on some major highway just south of San Jose. I was on the back side of the mountains, going downhill. Traffic was a bit of a clusterfuck, because there was one guy just sitting in the left lane, going the same speed as the right lane.

I was startled when something whipped right by my window. It was a motorcycle cop, speeding along right between the two lanes. He pulled up even with the [censored] cruising in the passing lane, hit his lights, and pulled him over. I fell in love with CA immediately.

EDIT: When I was in Germany, I was on a bus with a bunch of other students, going from Regensburg (southern Germany) to Berlin (northern). We passed other buses along the way, and there was at least one person drinking a beer in each of the other buses, even if it was 8 or 9AM. Totally different culture in Germany than anywhere else.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

I feel this is more of a big city phenomenon. When I lived in a 100k town in texas I never had this problem on the highways. People drove somewhat similarly to what you describe, albeitly less precise. On two lane roads slower cars will even pull on the shoulder to make passing easier. Now that I am in the Northeast, I notice the exact problems you speak of constantly. I always move out of the way of faster traffic as a courtesy and when I pass, I always accelerate through. I absolutely hate when one car tkaes 5 minutes to pass in the fast lane and I make sure not to do this. I don't know what it is, but I honestly think it relates less to stupidity and more toward people just being inconsiderate.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

To drive in Germany is far more expensive. By drive I mean be liscensed TO drive. The prohibitively expensive liscensing process keeps everyone aware of just how nice the privelege is.

Cam

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

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You gotta be kiddin. Frankfurt, Darmstadt and so on? Trafficjam every morning? 45mins for 20km?
Dang it feels weird being leveled ... [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

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no traffic jams where i was man...we started work pretty early every morning though so maybe i just missed them.

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Before 7 in the morning everything runs smooth. 7-9 = no fun. Where did you work/what did you do?

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

What I hate worse than people going under the speed limit is people that don't know how to merge. Drive through Iowa. Every single driver merges onto I-35 at 35-45MPH.

But, moving roadblocks are terrible.

| x | x | x |

Cars parallel to each other not allowing anyone to pass. It will make my brain hemorrhage some day. Being an impatient person who drives 10-20 over when unimpeded, I really want to move to Germany.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

Another reason might be that you only get your driving license in germany after two exams and around 30 hours on the road with a teacher who constantly tells you which rules to follow (e. g. staying in the right lane of a highway).

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

Anyone who disagrees with By-Tor obviously has not spent a significant amount of time driving in California. There are huge stretches of freeways where there's an exit every half mile, and the onramps are usually full of cars so you have to merge into the middle lane to let them in. Do you really think people should merge into the middle lane and back again once a minute or so? That's just retarded.

As for traffic on rural interstates, I grew up in northern Indiana and I thought it was fine. Haven't driven on the highways in other states enough to know whether it's any different.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

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Anyone who disagrees with By-Tor obviously has not spent a significant amount of time driving in California. There are huge stretches of freeways where there's an exit every half mile, and the onramps are usually full of cars so you have to merge into the middle lane to let them in. Do you really think people should merge into the middle lane and back again once a minute or so? That's just retarded.

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WTF? If you were in the middle lane, you would be essentially passing people the entire time.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

one thing i don't understand is why the people strolling along in the left lane don't just move over and then follow the so called "maniacs." i am usually cruising at 10-20 over but anytime i see someone coming faster i immediately let them past and now have a "shield" to go 20-30 over in the middle lane passing when i need to. another thing is i really dislike passing in the right lane but some ppl just don't leave you much of a choice.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

Fwiw, I read that German (and maybe other) auto companies have a big political influence over keeping the autobahn without speed limit.

The autobahn is a beacon of light for the car lover. The idea that somewhere, in the civilised Western world, there is a place that you can legally and publically drive your car to its full potential.

If the autobahn did have a speed limit, you would definitely see a big decrease in sales for high performance cars in Germany, and all across Europe. Maybe throughout the rest of the world too.

So, if one of the main reasons in it staying without speed limit is the auto companies bottom line, it does make you question whether it is really a good thing or not.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

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Before 7 in the morning everything runs smooth. 7-9 = no fun. Where did you work/what did you do?

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Explosion testing in a little town called Kappelrodeck.

Re: German vs. American Drivers - A Trip Report and Call to Arms
 

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one thing i don't understand is why the people strolling along in the left lane don't just move over and then follow the so called "maniacs." i am usually cruising at 10-20 over but anytime i see someone coming faster i immediately let them past and now have a "shield" to go 20-30 over in the middle lane passing when i need to.

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ah, the buffer...