hand reading exercise
 

this hand is live 6/12
utg is an asian old guy who is completely out of his mind.
mp is a young kid who apparently knows who i am.

utg raises, mp 3 bets, i 4bet, utg calls, mp caps at 5, we call.

flop 3 ways: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
utg checks, mp bets, i raise, utg coldcalls, mp 3towns, i call, utg calls.

turn: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
utg checks, mp bets, i raise, utg folds, mp calls.

river: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
mp bets, i call.

well, what do i have?

Re: hand reading exercise
 

looks like AKo or high pair (no diamond) to me...i think your play on the flop and turn looks as if you are trying to protect your hand against a draw...

(looking forward to other comments, and op analysis)

Re: hand reading exercise
 

[ QUOTE ]
looks like AKo or high pair (no diamond) to me...i think your play on the flop and turn looks as if you are trying to protect your hand against a draw...

(looking forward to other comments, and op analysis)

[/ QUOTE ]

there's no way to 'protect' ur top pair against a draw here. the pot's just too big.

might help if you tell us what position you're in and how many handed...

Re: hand reading exercise
 

[ QUOTE ]
this hand is live 6/12
utg is an asian old guy who is completely out of his mind.
mp is a young kid who apparently knows who i am.

utg raises, mp 3 bets, i 4bet, utg calls, mp caps at 5, we call.

flop 3 ways: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
utg checks, mp bets, i raise, utg coldcalls, mp 3towns, i call, utg calls.

turn: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
utg checks, mp bets, i raise, utg folds, mp calls.

river: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
mp bets, i call.

well, what do i have?

[/ QUOTE ]

hmm.. sooted connectors with diamonds? anywhere from 89d - KQd.

Re: hand reading exercise
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this hand is live 6/12
utg is an asian old guy who is completely out of his mind.
mp is a young kid who apparently knows who i am.

utg raises, mp 3 bets, i 4bet, utg calls, mp caps at 5, we call.

flop 3 ways: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
utg checks, mp bets, i raise, utg coldcalls, mp 3towns, i call, utg calls.

turn: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
utg checks, mp bets, i raise, utg folds, mp calls.

river: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
mp bets, i call.

well, what do i have?

[/ QUOTE ]

hmm.. sooted connectors with diamonds? anywhere from 89d - KQd.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not convinced Bob is cold four-betting any of those preflop.

-McGee

Re: hand reading exercise
 

AxK [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

edited: AK, no diamond

Re: hand reading exercise
 

[ QUOTE ]
AxK [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

that was my thought originally.. but i wasn't sure on mp3's possible isolation PF raise, as well as bob's thoughts on that possibility, esp since it looks like utg would probably see the flop no matter how many bets to him.

KQs- no cap with only 5-6 players with an 'out of mind' old asian dude, with an avg 6-12 live player?

Re: hand reading exercise
 

i think maybe ak or kings or queens with the trump?

Re: hand reading exercise
 

QJ of diamonds, although I wouldn't be surprised if it was KQ of diamonds.

You wouldn't call 3 cold PF with 22, or 66, and you wouldn't just call on the river with quad fours. But you'd four bet PF with QJs. (I'd have guessed KQ of diamonds, but you just called on the flop, and probably not because you feared someone holding 5d3d with all that preflop action.)
QdJd makes sense given your just calling on the river when the board pairs up.

Re: hand reading exercise
 

[ QUOTE ]
this hand is live 6/12
utg is an asian old guy who is completely out of his mind.
mp is a young kid who apparently knows who i am.

utg raises, mp 3 bets, i 4bet, utg calls, mp caps at 5, we call.

flop 3 ways: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
utg checks, mp bets, i raise, utg coldcalls, mp 3towns, i call, utg calls.

turn: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
utg checks, mp bets, i raise, utg folds, mp calls.

river: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
mp bets, i call.

well, what do i have?

[/ QUOTE ]

looks like AK to me. no diamond.

AKd should not raise this turn (but rather capped the flop). Ako should raise it and fold to a 3 bet.

Re: hand reading exercise
 

good answer, changing my opinion to go along with high pair with one high diamond

Re: hand reading exercise
 

[ QUOTE ]
good answer, changing my opinion to go along with high pair with one high diamond

[/ QUOTE ]

reason i disagree is that youre getting too much in on a later street when you could be still drawing, thereby making it too expensive. however, with the AK (no diamond) our hand is already made - if we're behind, we can easily fold to a turn 3 Bet.

i would prefer a flop 4 bet/cap with AKd, but thats just me.

Re: hand reading exercise
 

Pbob, does MP know that UTG is nutso? Is his 3 bet an isolation raise or do you think he has a stronger hand.

Re: hand reading exercise
 

KK with King of diamond

Re: hand reading exercise
 

My original thoughts were AxKx (no diamond), AxQx, or AxQd. Obviously the AQ hands depend on how much the "young kid" who knew who you were was adjusting to the spewtard UTG and how much pb was adjusting to that.

I'll stick with AxKx, no diamond.

Re: hand reading exercise
 

[ QUOTE ]
KK with King of diamond

[/ QUOTE ]

why on earth would you raise the turn with this hand? so you can pay double for your draw?

Re: hand reading exercise
 

I would say he does not ever have KK with the [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] here. He knows no one is ever folding an A.

Re: hand reading exercise
 

if he does have KxKd that makes MP less likely to have AK, and more likely to have QxQd and bet the turn to represent the ace.

I could be way off here, but somehow i dont think anyone has an ace in this hand. I think both of the players were just trying to get UTG out

Re: hand reading exercise
 

Well lets go street by street here:

Preflop: PB's range is significantly larger than his default 4 -betting range here. He isn't four betting some random tight passives. Maniac's range is large. I assume if the kid knows who PB is, he is at least a bad TAG so he'll know about isolation threebetting. TT+, KQs+, AQ+ depending on table conditions (if very passive, he might be able to cold call some big suited connectors for volume)

Flop/Turn: Well the flop raise only tells us that PB has a hand he'd like to continue with. The pot is big and only 3 way. I think PB is raising with most hands he'll want to play: mostly for value, but also in case UTG makes a mistake and folds. (He probably just calls with KKd-TTd) I think we can knock the PPs without a diamond off the list and all non-ace, non diamond having hands also).

The call of the third raise and raise of the turn tells us a bit more about the hand. I think PB should and would cap in this spot with hands that have good equity against the hand ranges of mp and especially utg. For this reason I think we can rule out flushes, big combo hands like AxQd, AxKd, and maybe AA. I can actually see PB playing AA in this manner sometimes. In any case, he should cap the flop with flush/pair-nut draws with a diamond.

River: AA and flushes both put in another raise here I think.

Conclusion: AK with no diamond, mebbe AQ no diamond.

edit: the turn raise almost eliminates KK and QQ from PB's range imo. What kind of hand is he hoping utg will fold? Retards don't fold diamonds in big pots. Looks like a raise to charge a draw to me.

Re: hand reading exercise
 

[ QUOTE ]
if he does have KxKd that makes MP less likely to have AK, and more likely to have QxQd and bet the turn to represent the ace.



[/ QUOTE ]

Nice. But, wouldn't he 4bet the flop if he wanted UTG out? And is MP bet/3 betting the flop with QQ after PBob cold 4 bet preflop?

Re: hand reading exercise
 

[ QUOTE ]
edit: the turn raise almost eliminates KK and QQ from PB's range imo. What kind of hand is he hoping utg will fold? Retards don't fold diamonds in big pots. Looks like a raise to charge a draw to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
KK could be raising for value here against an aggressive tricky opponent

Re: hand reading exercise
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
edit: the turn raise almost eliminates KK and QQ from PB's range imo. What kind of hand is he hoping utg will fold? Retards don't fold diamonds in big pots. Looks like a raise to charge a draw to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
KK could be raising for value here against an aggressive tricky opponent

[/ QUOTE ]

Even when the opponent is aggro and tricky (which the read does not specify), when he five-bet caps the flop, bet/threebets the flop against a TAG and a calling station and leads the turn (still into a TAG and a calling station) on a A23 monotone board, he has a hand with an ace in it a majority of the time. Notice i didn't say PB never has KK here, but I think it needs to be discounted lots, especially since villain isn't described as tricky or aggro.

Re: hand reading exercise
 

I vote for AKs no [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], until I here a little more about MP.

Re: hand reading exercise
 

[ QUOTE ]
mp is a young kid

[/ QUOTE ]
pretty much always = tricky bluffspewtard

Re: hand reading exercise
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
mp is a young kid

[/ QUOTE ]
occasionally = tricky bluffspewtard

[/ QUOTE ]
FYP

Re: hand reading exercise
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if he does have KxKd that makes MP less likely to have AK, and more likely to have QxQd and bet the turn to represent the ace.



[/ QUOTE ]

Nice. But, wouldn't he 4bet the flop if he wanted UTG out?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because fish regularly coldcall 2 and then fold for 2 more?

Re: hand reading exercise
 

Q Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or A Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] but I think you have one high diamond in your hand.

Re: hand reading exercise
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if he does have KxKd that makes MP less likely to have AK, and more likely to have QxQd and bet the turn to represent the ace.



[/ QUOTE ]

Nice. But, wouldn't he 4bet the flop if he wanted UTG out?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because fish regularly coldcall 2 and then fold for 2 more?

[/ QUOTE ]No, you're right.

Re: hand reading exercise
 

[ QUOTE ]
Q Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or A Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] but I think you have one high diamond in your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]I don't think he is raising the turn with QQ and I don't think he is 4 betting preflop with AQo and if he did, I still dont think he is raising the turn with it.

Re: hand reading exercise
 

High pair KK QQ JJ TT. Neither diamond flush nor A set. MP doesn't have flush. Did you win?

Re: hand reading exercise
 

AxKd.
KdQd is the backup.

Re: hand reading exercise
 

results plz

Re: hand reading exercise
 

AK no diamond definitively, he would cap the flop with TPTK and the nut fd 3 ways probably and wouldnt raise knocking out utg on the turn with either that or red KK QQ probably; itd be pretty stupid if he did since MP has atleast TP and utg would never fold any hand that could outdraw him/ currently has him beat (assuming Bob holds AsKd AQd or KdK QdQ)

Also bob mite fold those underpairs on the river to the donk.

I dont know what the hell MP has tho, AA perhaps that got scared on the turn that u mite 4 bet KQdd preflop? im guessing u would not, correct? maybe he has a wacky 22 or 44 that capped preflop and slowed down on the turn? probably not so im guessing its most likely he also has AK, not sure if he does with or without a diamond tho. Either way the donk is stupid with AK on the river but i ll assume hes stupid and guess u guys chopped it up.

Re: hand reading exercise
 

Liberal cold 4b range against a monkey and a potential isolator:
AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT?, 99?
AKs, AK, AQs, AQ?, AJs?, KQs?, QJs?, JTs?

A made flush doesn't make sense. K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is a possible hand, but very unlikely preflop. Anything worse isn't a cold-4betting hand. Even if it is a flopped flush, there's no reason to slow down on the flop when UTG will be seeing the turn at any cost.

QQ-88, diamond or not, are out.

KK with no diamond doesn't raise the turn and then probably doesn't call a river donk.

KK with [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] probably shouldn't raise the turn and risk blowing the monkey out of the hand. Then again, maybe OP thought the monkey would call two big bets cold with any decent diamond. But if this was the play, then why not go nutty on the flop?

Since there was a flop call of the 3b, the turn raise of a brick smells like protection.

What can we possibly call this river with?

AK/AQ no [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Re: hand reading exercise
 

I just chose QQ or AQ cause I dare to be different [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img].

Re: hand reading exercise
 

[ QUOTE ]
this hand is live 6/12
utg is an asian old guy who is completely out of his mind.
mp is a young kid who apparently knows who i am.

utg raises, mp 3 bets, i 4bet, utg calls, mp caps at 5, we call.

flop 3 ways: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
utg checks, mp bets, i raise, utg coldcalls, mp 3towns, i call, utg calls.

turn: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
utg checks, mp bets, i raise, utg folds, mp calls.

river: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
mp bets, i call.

well, what do i have?

[/ QUOTE ]

KQ [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Though you might pop AxK [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] on turn here I think the river action gives it away. He is repping AK or AA on river mostly AA and that takes all but 1 Ace so KQ [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is just simply the most likely hand w/ AxK [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] a distant 2nd.

Re: hand reading exercise
 

an ace and another paint card without a diamond.

Re: hand reading exercise
 

PB never has a flush here for two reasons.


1. This is like the worst flop/turn line to take with a made flush. Why would you want to face the calling station with 2 BB cold when you can easily get him to call a flop cap, probably drawing dead? The same goes for AxKd. PB simply has too much equity with two cards to come not to cap thee flop.

2. Given the action, I think a river raise is in order with a flush.

Re: hand reading exercise
 

[ QUOTE ]
PB never has a flush here for two reasons.


1. This is like the worst flop/turn line to take with a made flush. Why would you want to face the calling station with 2 BB cold when you can easily get him to call a flop cap, probably drawing dead? The same goes for AxKd. PB simply has too much equity with two cards to come not to cap thee flop.

2. Given the action, I think a river raise is in order with a flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising river is spewage. Our line looks like a flush to a live 6/12 player. These guys are extremely passive as a general rule and if this guy is out of the typical CB mold he will be scared shitless of Pbobs turn raise. Also as for the turn raise I dont see whats wrong w/ facing a maniac retard with 2 bets cold on this turn. 1st he may not fold a diamond 2nd he might have some ridic 2 pair.

I might agree w/ a raise fold line, but that is very tough considering the size of this pot and meta-factors.

Re: hand reading exercise
 

LOL exactly right