25NL - Tough decisions with TT
 

This guy is 22/12/4.5. On his second hand at the table, he shoved 88 over my turn bet on a K high board and caught an 8 on the river to beat my AK.

I actually think I should have folded the turn here. If I'd known I would fold the river, I probably would have. It's unlikely that my hand gets any better. But I couldn't figure out the best course of action and so I called hoping that might slow him down. Obv it didn't and I couldn't convince myself I was ahead.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($47.45)
SB ($37.95)
BB ($24.35)
UTG ($11.75)
Hero ($26.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.25</font>, Button calls $1.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $1, UTG folds.

Flop: ($4.10) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $3</font>, Button calls $3, BB folds.

Turn: ($10.10) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $5</font>, Hero calls $5.

River: ($20.10) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $8</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $28.10

Re: 25NL - Tough decisions with TT
 

Why don't you think you're ahead? I think you're WA here, I raise turn. What could he have that beats you?

Re: 25NL - Tough decisions with TT
 

Why did you fold river? WTF. Keep betting on the turn. I don't get it.

Edit: Wait, you folded because he's a donkey and sucked out the last hand? Wow.

Re: 25NL - Tough decisions with TT
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you fold river? WTF. Keep betting on the turn. I don't get it.

Edit: Wait, you folded because he's a donkey and sucked out the last hand? Wow.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't have to be a smarta$$. I thought I was behind because the last time he had a mediocre holding he got REALLY aggressive with it. Here he made callable bets.

What could he possibly have that beats me? Hmm, I dunno. A set?

Maybe I *am* playing scared because I've lost just about every pot I've played in the last 3 days.

Re: 25NL - Tough decisions with TT
 

yes - you are playing scared

Re: 25NL - Tough decisions with TT
 

[ QUOTE ]
You don't have to be a smarta$$.

Maybe I *am* playing scared because I've lost just about every pot I've played in the last 3 days.

[/ QUOTE ]Sorry.

Yes, this is playing scared. Stop searching for monsters when you go to a flop. Him calling the flop is W-E-A-K not strong. The only reason he bet the turn is because you checked. River is a weak bluff because he doesn't want to go to showdown with his hand. When the board paired 3's your hand became stronger and you need to bet again.

Re: 25NL - Tough decisions with TT
 

If nothing else call the river on pot odds alone, you're getting 2.5:1 with an overpair to the board and no straights or flushes. The only thing that has you beat is a set, and he sure didn't play it like one. vixicator is correct, you seem to be playing tentatively. I understand why after your bad run, but firing on the turn is a must.

Re: 25NL - Tough decisions with TT
 

Ok, I take the point that people generally think I played this poorly. But I've gotta argue with the idea that this is NOT how someone plays a set. This is exactly how someone plays a set. Hell, this is how I'd play a set on this board. I might check behind on the turn to induce a bet on the river. But I don't think this looks significantly different than how I would would expect 88 to get played in this pot.

Re: 25NL - Tough decisions with TT
 

[ QUOTE ]
but firing on the turn is a must.

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

Re: 25NL - Tough decisions with TT
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I take the point that people generally think I played this poorly. But I've gotta argue with the idea that this is NOT how someone plays a set. This is exactly how someone plays a set. Hell, this is how I'd play a set on this board. I might check behind on the turn to induce a bet on the river. But I don't think this looks significantly different than how I would would expect 88 to get played in this pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is a terrible way to play a set

Re: 25NL - Tough decisions with TT
 

[ QUOTE ]
This guy is 22/12/4.5. On his second hand at the table, he shoved 88 over my turn bet on a K high board and caught an 8 on the river to beat my AK.

I actually think I should have folded the turn here. If I'd known I would fold the river, I probably would have. It's unlikely that my hand gets any better. But I couldn't figure out the best course of action and so I called hoping that might slow him down. Obv it didn't and I couldn't convince myself I was ahead.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($47.45)
SB ($37.95)
BB ($24.35)
UTG ($11.75)
Hero ($26.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.25</font>, Button calls $1.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $1, UTG folds.

Flop: ($4.10) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $3</font>, Button calls $3, BB folds.

Turn: ($10.10) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $5</font>, Hero calls $5.

River: ($20.10) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $8</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $28.10

[/ QUOTE ]

checking the turn is fine, but lead the river to extract value from 99/66/8x etc

Re: 25NL - Tough decisions with TT
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but firing on the turn is a must.

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

[/ QUOTE ]Because the turn was an awesome card for our hand? Is this a trick question? If you say pot control I might throw up.

Re: 25NL - Tough decisions with TT
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but firing on the turn is a must.

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

[/ QUOTE ]Because the turn was an awesome card for our hand? Is this a trick question? If you say pot control I might throw up.

[/ QUOTE ] are you saying we sucked out on the turn?

Re: 25NL - Tough decisions with TT
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but firing on the turn is a must.

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

[/ QUOTE ]Because the turn was an awesome card for our hand? Is this a trick question? If you say pot control I might throw up.

[/ QUOTE ] are you saying we sucked out on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]No, I am saying our hand is still good and if he still wants to make horrible calls more power to him. If he folds, that's fine.

Re: 25NL - Tough decisions with TT
 

we're playing an aggro donkey who is more than happy to bluff. there are 2 fine lines here, c/c turn and lead river or bet turn and c/c river. there arent any draws on the board so we're not afraid of giving free cards, i like c/c the turn and lead river. let's not over dramatize the situation and say we "must" bet the turn. as long as money goes in on both streets (villain likes to bluff, let him) and we don't fold, the hand is well played.

Re: 25NL - Tough decisions with TT
 

[ QUOTE ]
we're playing an aggro donkey who is more than happy to bluff. there are 2 fine lines here, c/c turn and lead river or bet turn and c/c river. there arent any draws on the board so we're not afraid of giving free cards, i like c/c the turn and lead river. let's not over dramatize the situation and say we "must" bet the turn. as long as money goes in on both streets (villain likes to bluff, let him) and we don't fold, the hand is well played.

[/ QUOTE ]I see what you are saying now. Given his aggression I wouldn't be surprised if he raised the turn bet putting us in a more difficult situaton... c/c is fine, if, and only if, he is betting almost every time we check. So this is a reasonable spot to c/c, c/r, or bet with his high AF. Most players are passive though so the standard should be a bet.

In summary: I don't disagee with you on this hand.

Re: 25NL - Tough decisions with TT
 

Agree, some ppl play sets/trips like this, they want to get called so badly that they make smallish "value" bets. I don't think I'm folding the river, though.

OP, to get you scared some more, I've played a very similar pot yesterday against two villains, both with overpairs to a very similar board. I had 35s and hit my trips on the turn. I know, BBV, but this was supposed to be funny in context of this thread [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: 25NL - Tough decisions with TT
 

[ QUOTE ]


this is a terrible way to play a set

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you play this if you are villain and you have 88?

Re: 25NL - Tough decisions with TT
 

firing the turn is a must as you have an overpair which you want to protect against anyone drawing... you need to show the strength of your hand...
call river here is a must as well there hand may have just been counterfitted by that 3