my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

I live in Dallas, so I guess I was due to head up 35 and check out winstar. I took a few posters suggestions and exited in Gainsville for some Taco Casa or something like that. It was meh, but it was amusing observing small town kids who wanted to be big city thugs.

I pulled up to Winstar and my first reaction was 'I hope it doesn't deflate'. It looks ugly as [censored], like a makeshift circus tent with a foundation. I parked and walked inside, got directions to the poker room, and proceeded to walk through a black casino, with black walls, black ceilings, dark floors, and red accents. The casino was by far and away the ugliest I had ever seen. I noticed a blackjack table that had a 25$-$200 spread, and that seemed really low to me. My only conclusion was that I would never, ever, ever, ever gamble in a place like that. I rarely ever play tables games in Vegas, I feel like a sucker if I do, but I'd feel like a degenerate sucker if I played a single hand of anything besides poker in that [censored] hole. IIRC, people were ante'ing to play blackjack. Meh, I waded through ciggarette smoke and squeaky tight slot machines to the poker room.

The poker room was decent. The chairs were so-so, not bad, but not very comfortable imho. It was freezing in there, and that says a lot coming from me. I walked up and got in a $5-$10 NL game as soon as I put my name on the list. I also put my name on the list for $5-$10 plo, but it didnt make until I was leaving.

My biggest complaint is the [censored] bad beat jackpot, and the fact that they take the $1 drop from the small blind, regardless of whether or not you chop/see a flop. For [censored] sake, just forget about the badbeat jackpot, everyone knows it's just a way to rake more money, and it probably gets hit 5x as often at $4-$8 limit than it does at $5-$10 NL.


The dealers I had were all good. The chip runners were quick. The overall atmosphere provided enough that I will probably be back tomorrow. I also happened to be in an insane must move game. If you're not from Texas, you dont know about all the cowboy gamblers there are around here. And on the TX-OK border, there's plenty of them. We were 7-9 handed most of the time, and there were only 2-3 tough spots at the table, everyone else either spewy or just mediocre. One kid who looked like he was 15 who played a decent LAG style preflop but didnt switch gears very well post flop, and another preflop LAG who seemed to play solid post flop. I caught queens or better four times preflop, and nine-five or ten-three everyother hand. Got it in on the turn in one hand like this, with QQ

Two limpers to me on the button, I raise to $60 w/ QQ (the table had seen me limp KK utg previously) SB calls, one limper calls.

Flop J-9-2 w/ a club draw, checks to me I bet $200, SB calls.

turn

4, no flush draw, he shoves for $310 and I snap call, he says he can catch an ace, river brick, gg. I probably saw 15 pots > $700 in two hours. The game had two or three preflop and flop stations in it, and those guys give a lot of action and generate a lot of action.

I didn't notice what the rake was, but probably too much. I was really shocked when one of the LAG kids would scoop a $1000 pot and tip the dealer $15-$25 each time. Good for the dealers I guess.


Anyways, I'll be playing there more frequently now, and I dont reccomend any solid tag 2p2'ers ever play there. I'd like for that place to stay just like it was today.


-Tex

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

Excellent review. If you take 75 north you can drive over to Choctaw. It is nothing like winstar, but some people like that it only has 20 tables.

The rake is BS. You are at higher limits. At lower limits, it really eats away. Floor is decent there. It usually is a freezer in that place.

There has to be at least 20 something Texas 2p2'ers going to Winstar on periodic basis.

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

very cool tr. the second i read about the 5/10 plo game being spread, i started pricing hotels in gainseville and flights to dallas from sf.

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

its 2/5 plo most of the time

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

Yeah, sirtimo is right. Almost always 2/5 PLO when it goes, but sometimes they'll have 5/10 HO (round of each). From what I hear sweating the table one night, they actually do the H part as pot limit too.

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

I was there yesterday too, playing on the 2/5 nl game they had spread in the high stakes room. It was a decent night, I turned 300 into a G. However, I busted out my first buy-in as I was at a table with some true pros. One guy that had 3 wsop bracelets,another guy used to run Cheetah's strip club in Vegas before it went corporate back in 2002, and also played poker semiprofessional. The rest were decent online players or b&m regulars so it was tough. But like I said, I changed from this newly formed table of pros and did well.

This is my third trip up there since they opened the new room. Like the OP said, Oklahoma sucks, the winstar casino is the worst, but the poker room ain't half bad . The rake sucks if you're playing 1/2, but it's such a loose cirucs I'd stay away from those games. It's also 18+ and they don't card anyone so you see kids that gotta be 14 in there. Anyways, the games are usually beatable so it's a good place to make some money. I still prefer the trip to shreveport, but if i just got the night to play i'll go to winstar.

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was at a table with some true pros. One guy that had 3 wsop bracelets,

[/ QUOTE ]

really? who?

think someone was pulling your leg
[img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

i would have to agree

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

I think it's funny that on HSP they tip the dealer $5-$10 and at winstar any pot over $500 the dealer gets 20+. Yeah the rake sucks, 5+1 on all tables, especially the jackpot drop before the [censored] deal!! Every other damn hand when it gets to the small blind in a 1/2 game he looks puzzled as to where his small blind is and throws in 2 then the dealer throws one back, and it goes on and on til he realizes what happened.

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

it's a decent poker room there...i go on the weekends and theres plenty of fishes there...the 5/10 is the biggest nlhe they usually have and it can get really action packed...the 2/5 game is beatable...some good players but lots of fishes on the the weekends i've noticed...

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

For all you 4/8 LHE players in the DFW area that fly off to Vegas a couple of times of a year WINSTAR is a must visit. WINSTAR always has more 4/8 games going than any of the casinos there. I was playing 4/8 at the Venetian last month and a metroplex resident told me to check it out. I'm there (WINSTAR) at least once a week and have not been disappointed yet. The rake is a bit higher, but still a lot cheaper than a long weekend in Vegas. You won't get rich, but if you just enjoy playing for fun, and have a clue, you will get your gas money back and still have a buck or two left over for the TACO CASA. You will find the whole list of low limit "usual suspects" at every table. Nice extra is an occasional young gun 1/2 hotshot wannabe bringing his NL game to a low limit table. CHA CHING They will build you some very nice pots. Of course, you will have the normal swings, but a TAG can play one hand an hour and always get plenty of customers when its time to go to work. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]plenty of these tee vee wannabes too [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was at a table with some true pros. One guy that had 3 wsop bracelets,

[/ QUOTE ]

really? who?

think someone was pulling your leg
[img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, i'm being completely serious. Lou Diamond Phillips was also there last night (star of the somewhat sucessfull 1989 movie "La bamba"). David Williams plays there occasionally (more back in the day when he was attending SMU.) Greg Raymer also showed up for their yearly $1000 dollar red river shoot out tournament. They spread some higher games during that tourney or even during their monthly $330 buy in tournaments. Raymer got his ass kicked in the 25/50 NL game they spread when he was there for the tourney, or so a dealer was telling me.

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

Yeah I played 5/10 with Lou last weekend......... still, I'd like to know who was there that claimed they had 3 bracelets. Since there are only 22 people with 3 WSOP bracelets, 2 of them are women, at least a dozen of them are playing at the WSOP right now, and at least one is dead, that sorta narrows down the field.

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was at a table with some true pros. One guy that had 3 wsop bracelets,

[/ QUOTE ]

really? who?

think someone was pulling your leg
[img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, i'm being completely serious. Lou Diamond Phillips was also there last night (star of the somewhat sucessfull 1989 movie "La bamba"). David Williams plays there occasionally (more back in the day when he was attending SMU.) Greg Raymer also showed up for their yearly $1000 dollar red river shoot out tournament. They spread some higher games during that tourney or even during their monthly $330 buy in tournaments. Raymer got his ass kicked in the 25/50 NL game they spread when he was there for the tourney, or so a dealer was telling me.

[/ QUOTE ]



THERE ARE SOME GOOD 5/10 NL PLAYERS WHO ARE THERE ON A REGULAR BASIS. MUCH SAFER THAN PLAYING THE UNDERGROUND GAMES IN DALLAS. THEY DON'T HAVE TO DODGE THE PO-LICE OR THE HIJACKERS IF THEY PLAY AT WINSTAR. BESIDES THAT, THE RAKE AT WINSTAR BEATS THE UNDERGROUND RAKE IN DALLAS. YOU WON'T SEE TOO MANY WSOP BRACELETS HOLDERS THERE. RAYMAR SHOWED UP ONCE TO COLLECT AN APPEARANCE FEE. TJ CLOTIER LIVES IN THE METROPLEX BUT HAS NEVER BEEN REPORTED TO BE THERE. HAVE SEEN HIM AROUND TOWN AND AT DFW AIRPORT OCCASIONALLY. JASON TERRY AND HIS "WE GOT KNOCKED OUT IN THE FIRST ROUND" NBA LOSERS BRACELET HAS BEEN THERE ONCE OR TWICE. PLENTY OF DONKS AND TEE VEE WANNABES AT THE 1/2 & 4/8 LOW STAKES TABLES THOUGH. WINSTAR IS A GREAT PLACE TO GET A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] CRACKED ON A REGULAR BASIS.

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

Why the hell do you play 1/2 there. I learned my lesson after playing that game once at winstar and moved up to 2/5 or 5/10, instead of continuing to play 1/2 and moan on the internet about getting AA cracked all the time.

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was at a table with some true pros. One guy that had 3 wsop bracelets,

[/ QUOTE ]

really? who?

think someone was pulling your leg
[img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, i'm being completely serious. Lou Diamond Phillips was also there last night (star of the somewhat sucessfull 1989 movie "La bamba"). David Williams plays there occasionally (more back in the day when he was attending SMU.) Greg Raymer also showed up for their yearly $1000 dollar red river shoot out tournament. They spread some higher games during that tourney or even during their monthly $330 buy in tournaments. Raymer got his ass kicked in the 25/50 NL game they spread when he was there for the tourney, or so a dealer was telling me.

[/ QUOTE ]



THERE ARE SOME GOOD 5/10 NL PLAYERS WHO ARE THERE ON A REGULAR BASIS. MUCH SAFER THAN PLAYING THE UNDERGROUND GAMES IN DALLAS. THEY DON'T HAVE TO DODGE THE PO-LICE OR THE HIJACKERS IF THEY PLAY AT WINSTAR. BESIDES THAT, THE RAKE AT WINSTAR BEATS THE UNDERGROUND RAKE IN DALLAS. YOU WON'T SEE TOO MANY WSOP BRACELETS HOLDERS THERE. RAYMAR SHOWED UP ONCE TO COLLECT AN APPEARANCE FEE. TJ CLOTIER LIVES IN THE METROPLEX BUT HAS NEVER BEEN REPORTED TO BE THERE. HAVE SEEN HIM AROUND TOWN AND AT DFW AIRPORT OCCASIONALLY. JASON TERRY AND HIS "WE GOT KNOCKED OUT IN THE FIRST ROUND" NBA LOSERS BRACELET HAS BEEN THERE ONCE OR TWICE. PLENTY OF DONKS AND TEE VEE WANNABES AT THE 1/2 & 4/8 LOW STAKES TABLES THOUGH. WINSTAR IS A GREAT PLACE TO GET A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] CRACKED ON A REGULAR BASIS.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah, speaking of raids did you hear about the one on the 3rd? http://pokerati.com/2007/06/03/offic...t-dallas-raid/

Pisses me off that they're still doing it. you'd think with all the criticism the dallas swat got from raiding the rooms (and some of my old stomping grounds) back in nov. to boost their A&E ratings, that they would've learned to let the friendly underground clubs be.

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why the hell do you play 1/2 there. I learned my lesson after playing that game once at winstar and moved up to 2/5 or 5/10, instead of continuing to play 1/2 and moan on the internet about getting AA cracked all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because my name is Brandi and Mr. Slongski says I moan better than Chantel. See you at the Winstar tomorrow. I'll have my mouth wide open and my teat will be on Full Tilt. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

[ QUOTE ]

Nah, i'm being completely serious. Lou Diamond Phillips was also there last night (star of the somewhat sucessfull 1989 movie "La bamba"). David Williams plays there occasionally (more back in the day when he was attending SMU.) Greg Raymer also showed up for their yearly $1000 dollar red river shoot out tournament. They spread some higher games during that tourney or even during their monthly $330 buy in tournaments. Raymer got his ass kicked in the 25/50 NL game they spread when he was there for the tourney, or so a dealer was telling me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Poker wasn't legal in Oklahoma when David Williams was living in Texas. At least not pre-fame.

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

He's played there recently when home visiting his mom.

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

[ QUOTE ]
at winstar any pot over $500 the dealer gets 20+.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is horrible

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

Don't doubt it.

As for tipping the dealer $20, I dunno bout that, but I only play limit. I see Asians tipping 3,4,5 sometimes... but they came to GAMBOOOOOL and generally don't value money at all.

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

Yesterday I had one of the drink girls ask me if I wanted anything. I assumed it was comped, b/c I'd never played in a room where they charged players for drinks.

So, I handed her two white chips and said thank you, then she went to grab my drink. She gets back 15 minutes later and says 'that'll be $2.25'.......i'm like 'wtf' (in my head), and hand her a five dollar bill.

Bitch says 'do you need change?'

I'm like WTF!!!!!!!

I tell her that 'yeah, i need change, i gave you two dollars when you took my order', and she hands me $2 in change, i.e., she shorted me seventy five cents.

But think about it- when a waitress asks you in that spot if you need change, she's expecting you to say 'no'.

So, like, I'm some sort of sucker who's going to spend $7.00 on a [censored] starbucks frappucino? And [censored] me running, I end up tipping her like 140%.

I went and told the floor about it. It's not the seventy five cents, obv, it's the principle.

Personally, I think that room is making WAAAAAAAAAY too much money off the players.

WTF @ the rake.

Especially at $1-$2. There's no way you can beat that rake. If it's 10 handed and the avg. stack is $150, there's $1500 on the table, and they're taking $30/hour off the table for the bad beat jackpot (the bad beat is that every bad beat jackpot gets [censored] pinched) and about $120/hour in rake. So every hour, they're taking 10% of the chips on the table, on average. WTF.



Oh, and then they have sattelites for their sunday $300+30, and their sats are 10-man $50 buy-in crapshoots that pay one spot.

They're making $170 off of each [censored] sattelite.


The room is a total rip off.

I've yet to see if my winrate justifies the $20 in gas it costs me to drive up there and back, on top of the ridiculous rake and [censored] jackpot drop.


Meh.


Second day up there, seems like a piece of [censored] card room because they rape their players.

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and then they have sattelites for their sunday $300+30, and their sats are 10-man $50 buy-in crapshoots that pay one spot.


[/ QUOTE ]

Winstar actually plays 9-handed and not 10-handed which reduces the juice in the SAT, still pretty expensive but not nearly as bad. I agree that the format sucks, thus I have never played one.

As to the rake in the 1/2NL game it seems to be pretty standard for an Indian casino. Yes it is steep however the game is so beatable and profitible that you just need get past it. I play 2 to 3 times a week and average about $20/hour.

The $1 jackpot being taken out preflop is the pits, however only one hand in 30 folds to the blinds (in the 1/2nl) so this really doesn't affect the rake much. I have won the jackpot (winners share of 30%) for $3200 so I definitely can't complain. Also remember with the bad beat jackpot that Winstar adds $10,000 to each pot, that makes it a huge overlay. Plus on Mondays through Thursday the sponser several promos such as $100 splash the pot, aces cracked and high hand thus making the actual rake less.

Overall I really enjoy my playing time at Winstar.

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

If you compare the rake at Winstar to any of the underground Dallas rooms, Winstar is a screaming bargain - even the 1/2 rake. At 2/5, the bargain just gets better because the rake doesn't change from 1/2 to 2/5...not 100% sure but it may be the same for 5/10 too.

Yes being charged $2.50 for Red Bull or Starbucks drinks is annoying but unless you drink like gallons of this crap while you're playing, it makes no huge diff. Softdrinks are free anyway - drink Mountain Dew. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

Yeah, I can't believe anybody plays those sats, clearly nobody does the math. Then again, do I want to play with people who are smart enough to do math?

Winstar definitely enjoys their monopoly in some situations.

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

I was there wanting to play a tourney and considered the single table tourney SAT. After I read the buy-ins/payout I thought it was a misprint. I couldn't validate it so I passed. But they are BAD!

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

they did however run $120 sats 10 ten-handed for the $1200 Riverwin(sp?) tourney in OKC a few weeks ago and paid out *2* seats... I was shocked at an actual overlay.


I went about trying to find a buddy to buy 5 seats and me buy 5 seats (ie: we both get a seat at half price) but couldn't convince anyone it was a bargain. Guess that's poker for you.

Re: my first trip to winstar, TR, tl;dr
 

I used to basically live at Winstar, they spread some pretty good games. I didn't play much this year but in the past the 5/10NL game was beatable but they rarely had the 10/25NL game running.

Their poker room was a parking lot at times when they first started out, good to see how well it has turned out.