5/10 on-line, jam flop or enlist preflop raiser?
 

My first post here, so please excuse any errors/rookie mistakes I might make:

About 1/2 way into my second orbit (don't have a read on anyone), 3 mp limpers and hero limps with 4s4c in HJ, button insta-raises, sb folds, bb and all call.

flop: QsJs4h
all check to hero who donks, button insta-raises again; bb folds, others call two

Hero jams pot now or leads turn on blank?

Re: 5/10 on-line, jam flop or enlist preflop raiser?
 

jams?This is limit.
Suppose its a FL hand:I call and raise the turn ui/none spades,because you might get an overlap from the other 2 players.

Re: 5/10 on-line, jam flop or enlist preflop raiser?
 

* grunch *

On drawy flops I just ram sets for all they are worth; make others pay now! If button caps I'd lead turn and then perhaps think of slowing down if he still raised. And I'd probably lead turn regardless of turn card, I'd hate to let the turn check thru; even if someone has made their straight/flush by then you'll have lottsa outs.

Gclueless2/4livenoobG

Re: 5/10 on-line, jam flop or enlist preflop raiser?
 

preflop is fine
flop: 3 bets please

Re: 5/10 on-line, jam flop or enlist preflop raiser?
 

Sorry 'bout the "jams" M8, perhaps "re-raise" is better phraseolgy?

At any rate, do I 3-bet flop, bloat the pot, or call and lead with my set knowing button will make mp players call 2 cold?

Re: 5/10 on-line, jam flop or enlist preflop raiser?
 

You 3 bet... you don't want those spade draws in there... but if they're dumb enough to pay two bets for it, it doesn't hurt you. Get your money in and get paid off by the button.

Re: 5/10 on-line, jam flop or enlist preflop raiser?
 

My first reaction was to go for the checkraise. Donking the flop seems better now, but you have to threebang. Hopefully he caps his AA KK AQ and you can push some people out.

Re: 5/10 on-line, jam flop or enlist preflop raiser?
 

Maybe I'm missing something, but the potential spade draws have already called 2 cold. Do I go ahead and re-raise because of my equity (knowing that the button will now likely just call my turn bet), or call flop and lead turn, allowing button to make it 2 BB to other players? (I'm pretty convinced that button has big overpair at this point.)

Re: 5/10 on-line, jam flop or enlist preflop raiser?
 

Good points. Let's assume I 3-bang and he caps, Do the spade draws fold when it's two back to them in this pot? (after they've already called 2?)

Re: 5/10 on-line, jam flop or enlist preflop raiser?
 

who cares, lol
we have a set
draws are coming along anyway
mash it up now and make a huge pot so the times we don't get sucked out on, we win lots of monies.
not a good spot for pot control

Re: 5/10 on-line, jam flop or enlist preflop raiser?
 

I would call the flop raise, lead the turn, and 3 bet it if I get the chance.

Re: 5/10 on-line, jam flop or enlist preflop raiser?
 

[ QUOTE ]
who cares, lol
we have a set
draws are coming along anyway
mash it up now and make a huge pot so the times we don't get sucked out on, we win lots of monies.
not a good spot for pot control

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 5/10 on-line, jam flop or enlist preflop raiser?
 

ld,

welcome to the forums.

ram and jam that flop. no decent draw is going anywhere, anyway. you have tons of equity. make money off of it. also, waiting for the turn can kill the action if a scarecard comes as well as making it easier for a toppair type hand to get away when it would call down from a flop raise drawing almost dead. good luck.

Re: 5/10 on-line, jam flop or enlist preflop raiser?
 

QsJs is very drawy. 3-town.

Re: 5/10 on-line, jam flop or enlist preflop raiser?
 

Thanks all,

Here's what I did (and the "thinking" that went with it). I called flop with the intention of leading of turn, regardless of what came. Flush draws were coming regardless, since they'd already cold called. I felt like button had big PP but had a niggling thought that it might have been JJ or QQ and I didn't want to bet his hand...yet. This might be "monster under the bed" thinking, but I called his raise and led the turn when a brick fell. (Truth to tell, I would have led regardless). He, expectedly, raised and faced any draws with calling 2 BBs. Perhaps not enough to get the (nut) flush draws out, but the gut shots would go away and maybe the flush draws facing a reraise which I certainly accomodated. When the button just called the reraise, well... I smiled.

Re: 5/10 on-line, jam flop or enlist preflop raiser?
 

Bingo. This is either one of those "great minds think alike" moments or we both left money on the table.

I appreciate all the replys.

Re: 5/10 on-line, jam flop or enlist preflop raiser?
 

:Grunch:

With four players and this board, I three bang. This board is horrible; I'm guessing you're up against at least one flush draw and two broadways are out there. Any A, K, T, or spade stinks for your hand.

Though you could argue for waiting for the turn, I would 3bang now since 1) the pot is four-way and 2) I want to see the PFR'r reaction.

Re: 5/10 on-line, jam flop or enlist preflop raiser?
 

[ QUOTE ]
who cares, lol
we have a set
draws are coming along anyway
mash it up now and make a huge pot so the times we don't get sucked out on, we win lots of monies.
not a good spot for pot control

[/ QUOTE ]

QFE (that's for emphasis)...mash this up now and it's not even close...we're almost certainly ahead here and are a favorite to win this hand. at the same time, if you keep betting here most of your opponents will just keep calling, seems pretty unexploitable to me?

Re: 5/10 on-line, jam flop or enlist preflop raiser?
 

I just want to say you don't get the flushdraws out, but overcards with backdoor straightdraws, and lone spades might leave you which is good (or they are paying, which is good as well)

Re: 5/10 on-line, jam flop or enlist preflop raiser?
 

well either our opponents are good or they aren't. if they are, then getting tricky a) may not work (ie our turn donk won't get raised) or b)will drive out improper draws on the turn leaving us against hands that beat us or hands we crush that won't pay off a lot or may even fold.

if they're not, or if it's a mix of good and bad players, then mashing it up now righteously seems best ( i mean it's best either way), we almost certainly are ahead now, let's build a huge pot with our somewhat disguised monster and even if draws (that people are chasing correctly or not) come in, we have a redraw to big monies.

this is the babar theorem - mash it up and fastplay sets on drawy boards [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]