too aggressive?
 

Cryptologic 1.00/2.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (10.00 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8.00 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, Button calls.

River: (11.00 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 14.00 BB.


havent noticed anything unusual about the other players, Button is slightly loose acording to PT, though only over a very small number of hands. I felt that KTs was a good hand to play here, with 3, potentially 4, other players in the hand. I check raised the flop to test out if i had the best hand or not, once everyone just called i felt i could bet out on every street. Is this too aggressive, with 2 people calling down, and only having a mid-ish kicker?

Re: too aggressive?
 

I don't love it, but I don't hate it, either.

Your postflop play was perfect. I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] the river value bet.

Re: too aggressive?
 

looks fine to me

Re: too aggressive?
 

I think it's pretty good, how would you play the flop marchron?

Re: too aggressive?
 

me weaky, check/reeval the river

Re: too aggressive?
 

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me weaky, check/reeval the river

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Wow, is that bad.

Re: too aggressive?
 

I think it looks good.

My question is on the river though.

What do you do if:
1) MP3 raises; Button calls
2) MP3 raises; Button folds
3) MP3 calls; Button raises

Is the pot big enough to call these raises here? I think I let 1) and 3) go but call 2). This could all be leaks though.

Re: too aggressive?
 

OK boz, so we are bet folding, lol

Re: too aggressive?
 

Newbie here but I would play the same, except I would have bet out on the flop. If raised on the river probably call and hope!

Re: too aggressive?
 

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OK boz, so we are bet folding, lol

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attaboy

Re: too aggressive?
 

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Newbie here but I would play the same, except I would have bet out on the flop. If raised on the river probably call and hope!

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Why would you donk the pre-flop raisor with tpwk when a large chunk of his range is going to have you dominated? What is your plan if you just get called by the pfr? Raised?

Re: too aggressive?
 

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Newbie here but I would play the same, except I would have bet out on the flop. If raised on the river probably call and hope!

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Why would you donk the pre-flop raisor with tpwk when a large chunk of his range is going to have you dominated? What is your plan if you just get called by the pfr? Raised?

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If raised probably call and fold a turn bet UI. If called keep betting as the original post. I probably don't understand why a check raise here works better against a range that dominates the KT as opposed to betting out [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: too aggressive?
 

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Newbie here but I would play the same, except I would have bet out on the flop. If raised on the river probably call and hope!

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Why would you donk the pre-flop raisor with tpwk when a large chunk of his range is going to have you dominated? What is your plan if you just get called by the pfr? Raised?

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If raised probably call and fold a turn bet UI. If called keep betting as the original post. I probably don't understand why a check raise here works better against a range that dominates the KT as opposed to betting out [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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He'll c-bet always. So you c/r his entire range - including AQ, 99 and everything else. That's good. If you donk, if he's good, he'll likely only continue when you're behind/ he's got at least a very decent draw. Donking singles you out vs. that part of his range that you don'T beat.

Re: too aggressive?
 

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I think it looks good.

My question is on the river though.

What do you do if:
1) MP3 raises; Button calls
2) MP3 raises; Button folds
3) MP3 calls; Button raises

Is the pot big enough to call these raises here? I think I let 1) and 3) go but call 2). This could all be leaks though.

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Is it bad form to ask additional questions in someone else's thread or is the answer to this just obvious to everyone but me?

Re: too aggressive?
 

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Newbie here but I would play the same, except I would have bet out on the flop. If raised on the river probably call and hope!

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Why would you donk the pre-flop raisor with tpwk when a large chunk of his range is going to have you dominated? What is your plan if you just get called by the pfr? Raised?

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If raised probably call and fold a turn bet UI. If called keep betting as the original post. I probably don't understand why a check raise here works better against a range that dominates the KT as opposed to betting out [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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He'll c-bet always. So you c/r his entire range - including AQ, 99 and everything else. That's good. If you donk, if he's good, he'll likely only continue when you're behind/ he's got at least a very decent draw. Donking singles you out vs. that part of his range that you don'T beat.

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Excellent explanation thank you. I need to think more about what the villian would have if he calls you rather than just what he might have.

Re: too aggressive?
 

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I think it looks good.

My question is on the river though.

What do you do if:
1) MP3 raises; Button calls
2) MP3 raises; Button folds
3) MP3 calls; Button raises

Is the pot big enough to call these raises here? I think I let 1) and 3) go but call 2). This could all be leaks though.

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Is it bad form to ask additional questions in someone else's thread or is the answer to this just obvious to everyone but me?

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not at all, these questions are why these forums exist.

and this is why I hate bet/fold

Re: too aggressive?
 

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Newbie here but I would play the same, except I would have bet out on the flop. If raised on the river probably call and hope!

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Why would you donk the pre-flop raisor with tpwk when a large chunk of his range is going to have you dominated? What is your plan if you just get called by the pfr? Raised?

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If raised probably call and fold a turn bet UI. If called keep betting as the original post. I probably don't understand why a check raise here works better against a range that dominates the KT as opposed to betting out [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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He'll c-bet always. So you c/r his entire range - including AQ, 99 and everything else. That's good. If you donk, if he's good, he'll likely only continue when you're behind/ he's got at least a very decent draw. Donking singles you out vs. that part of his range that you don'T beat.

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Good point, I was wondering why he should check-raise when it doesn't protect his hand, with a preflop raiser in mp2.

Re: too aggressive?
 

mustafa, if anyone had raised on the river, i would have probably folded. Not saying this is correct. If i got 3 bet on the flop, i would have either folded, or called, and check folded the turn.

Re: too aggressive?
 

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I think it looks good.

My question is on the river though.

What do you do if:
1) MP3 raises; Button calls
2) MP3 raises; Button folds
3) MP3 calls; Button raises

Is the pot big enough to call these raises here? I think I let 1) and 3) go but call 2). This could all be leaks though.

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Is it bad form to ask additional questions in someone else's thread or is the answer to this just obvious to everyone but me?

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not at all, these questions are why these forums exist.

and this is why I hate bet/fold

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C'mon, Buzz, seriously...are these decisions MORE difficult than what to do if you check and:

1) MP3 bets; Button calls
2) MP3 bets; Button folds
3) MP3 checks; Button bets

I'd say that any of the 3 scenarios we have to deal with are easier than 1 &amp; 3 above. 2 above is probably the easiest of all, but we don't play poker for a 1 in 6 chance of an easy play, do we?

(Not to mention what you'll do to your cat when the river checks through and you get shown QQ and AdTx.)

Re: too aggressive?
 

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Excellent explanation thank you. I need to think more about what the villian would have if he calls you rather than just what he might have.

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Yup, you got it.

Re: too aggressive?
 

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I think it looks good.

My question is on the river though.

What do you do if:
1) MP3 raises; Button calls
2) MP3 raises; Button folds
3) MP3 calls; Button raises

Is the pot big enough to call these raises here? I think I let 1) and 3) go but call 2). This could all be leaks though.

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Is it bad form to ask additional questions in someone else's thread or is the answer to this just obvious to everyone but me?

[/ QUOTE ]

not at all, these questions are why these forums exist.

and this is why I hate bet/fold

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C'mon, Buzz, seriously...are these decisions MORE difficult than what to do if you check and:

1) MP3 bets; Button calls
2) MP3 bets; Button folds
3) MP3 checks; Button bets

I'd say that any of the 3 scenarios we have to deal with are easier than 1 &amp; 3 above. 2 above is probably the easiest of all, but we don't play poker for a 1 in 6 chance of an easy play, do we?

(Not to mention what you'll do to your cat when the river checks through and you get shown QQ and AdTx.)

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Don't hate....educate.

Re: too aggressive?
 

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I think it looks good.

My question is on the river though.

What do you do if:
1) MP3 raises; Button calls
2) MP3 raises; Button folds
3) MP3 calls; Button raises

Is the pot big enough to call these raises here? I think I let 1) and 3) go but call 2). This could all be leaks though.

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I think all three are folds but you're right that 2 has you in the best shape out of these. What do you beat? How often to people bluff-raise when the pot is still 3handed?

Re: too aggressive?
 

sorry but u all saying a check raise here is better then bet out,i just dont see how...
yes it work here cause MP2 let it go but if he was the one raising, your check raise wouldnt have done nothing to help u since no one would of fold when they would of call MP2 and u would only make a better pot w/o (usual u cant have the best hand here in a raise pot)making other fold since they will chase to the end...
dunno but for me a check raise is make people fold and find where u at,it worked great in this instance but i seriously doubt it work that nicely usuallly in a raise pot.

for me i would just bet out hoping to get raise by MP2(or MP3 in this case) and just 3bet it to really find out where im at.
this way,i feel much better chance to have it heads up and i find it always easier to plays heads up pot then multiway in early position...

by check raising here multiway pot and leading out like that,big chance u ll get trap often since someone migth let u lead the betting just waiting a good opportunity to raise u.

BUT:of course if the preflop raiser would of come from late position then i totally agree with this play but it wasnt...

Re: too aggressive?
 

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I think it looks good.

My question is on the river though.

What do you do if:
1) MP3 raises; Button calls
2) MP3 raises; Button folds
3) MP3 calls; Button raises

Is the pot big enough to call these raises here? I think I let 1) and 3) go but call 2). This could all be leaks though.

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Is it bad form to ask additional questions in someone else's thread or is the answer to this just obvious to everyone but me?

[/ QUOTE ]

not at all, these questions are why these forums exist.

and this is why I hate bet/fold

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C'mon, Buzz, seriously...are these decisions MORE difficult than what to do if you check and:

1) MP3 bets; Button calls
2) MP3 bets; Button folds
3) MP3 checks; Button bets

I'd say that any of the 3 scenarios we have to deal with are easier than 1 &amp; 3 above. 2 above is probably the easiest of all, but we don't play poker for a 1 in 6 chance of an easy play, do we?

(Not to mention what you'll do to your cat when the river checks through and you get shown QQ and AdTx.)

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yeah they all involve getting to showdown for cheap in small pot. Not about to spew/fold.

Re: too aggressive?
 

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I think it looks good.

My question is on the river though.

What do you do if:
1) MP3 raises; Button calls
2) MP3 raises; Button folds
3) MP3 calls; Button raises

Is the pot big enough to call these raises here? I think I let 1) and 3) go but call 2). This could all be leaks though.

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I think all three are folds but you're right that 2 has you in the best shape out of these. What do you beat? How often to people bluff-raise when the pot is still 3handed?

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You're right. It happens a decent amount at the levels I play or maybe I'm just justifying the crying calls I put in sometimes, but that was well put.

Re: too aggressive?
 

buzz, are you saying that you wouldnt donk the flop, or check raise, u would just call down as cheaply as possible because your hand is too good to fold, and not strong enough to be aggressive with?