JJ Overplayed?
 

Hammered twice today with JJ so I thought I'd have one reviewed.

Did I overplay this preflop?
Should I have c/f the turn?
Can I fold the river with 17:1 pot?


PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Turn: (10 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

River: (14 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, CO calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 18 BB

Re: JJ Overplayed?
 

overcall is tough, but it is a big pot.

Re: JJ Overplayed?
 

I'm not thrilled about capping preflop, but maybe I'm the minority. I would probably just flat call.

Re: JJ Overplayed?
 

the last time we had a pf situation like this with JJ, the cool kids wanted to fold.

as played, flop and turn are standard.

we can't over-overcall the river, even in this giant pot. is this a bet from TT and a call from AK and, um, 99/88/6x?

Re: JJ Overplayed?
 

&lt;nit&gt;88 has us whaled.&lt;/nit&gt;

Re: JJ Overplayed?
 

no reads? as played, bet the river. checking allows most any worse(or better) hand to play perfectly, as well as open you up to being outplayed. the pot's big so you can actually valuebet more liberally since much weaker holdings will call, and it's multiway so it is essentially protected.

Re: JJ Overplayed?
 

I don't cap PF against 3 others.

River is an easy fold for me versus 3 already in. If you find you would have won the pot with 2nd pair, then you probably have 3 new buddy list friends for life.

Re: JJ Overplayed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
overcall is tough, but it is a big pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I rest my case (see the AQ hand).

Re: JJ Overplayed?
 

not really the same

if hero bets here, he is folding to a raise always

Re: JJ Overplayed?
 

the last time we had a pf situation like this with JJ, the cool kids wanted to fold.

Huh? We fold JJ for 3 cold (sometimes) but not in the situation that this hand presents. That said I would tend to just call unless I felt like I could collect some dead money by capping it (doesn't seem too likely).

edited

Re: JJ Overplayed?
 

ya i call pf...

the rest is fine.

James - the potential benefit of checking the river is having a scared weak Q check it down as well, the chances of a Q not being out there are pretty low

Re: JJ Overplayed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
James - the potential benefit of checking the river is having a scared weak Q check it down as well, the chances of a Q not being out there are pretty low

[/ QUOTE ]

if we are assuming our opponents are passive enough to play a Queen like this and not valuebet it on the end when checked to, why can't we assume they will call with worse hands than our JJ?

that said my real point is if we plan on calling a bet on the river we need to put it there ourself. if we think the situation dictates a c/f, then it's fine not to bet.

if these opponents are weak enough to play a Queen like this, when a bet goes in on the river we are less of an underdog to their range if we place it ourselves. it's a common strategy of mine OOP in big-pot play versus weak/passive opponents to valuebet somewhat thin on the end.

i repeat, c/f is fine also, but if we are considering calling a bet we are in a more profitable situation placing it ourself.

Re: JJ Overplayed?
 

PF I'd rather call to see if MP caps it. I could find a fold only if SB is a nit, though. Coldcalling 3 seems like the ickiest thing you can do but we have a solid reason for doing so here.