86s facing a turn donk
 

SB is 27/14/1.2 (118) and is quite bad based on my first impression.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $483.40
UTG+1: $192
CO: $92.45
Button: $244.40
SB: $789.90
Hero: $241

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
2 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($6, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $20</font>, CO folds, SB calls.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($46, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $23</font>,

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

Raise 70$, fold to a push, to check the river in position ?

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

if we raise the turn i think it's with the intention of calling a push..

raising and then folding seems kind of silly to me...

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

Raising and folding is pretty bad I think. I call.

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

Raise/folding doesn't seem bad with 220 still behind. Hard to see him going back over the top with worse than middle two. Anyhow, I'd just call. More value I think.

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

Personally I'd call. He completed so we could be up against a heck of a lot of hands. I'd say we're up againts top pair or better here?

Additionally raising here scares off a lot of hands we want in. We don't want top/over pair to bail since its only 8 outs to improve. Raising again I think scares off anything that isn't at LEAST top pair and TPWK might well go with it.

I'd call here with the intention of calling most river bets as well.


Theres no way to know were up against a set or better two pair but its possible. Still I don't think the action so far screams out "beaten" so I'd call-call. Notice he hasn't reraised you which is why I lean towards him having a 10. He could also have something like J9. If they were both clubs it'd make his turn bet slightly more feasible.

Again, usual disclaimer, fairly green so please feel free to correct but if you feel the need to please justify it clearly so I can learn

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

*Grunch* You have to fold. He might have played the hand this way with big overcards or a big pocket pair, but he didn't raise preflop, so this is unlikely. He MIGHT do this with top pair (10s), but I think we are way behind his range most of the time here with bottom two.

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

i just call, but if i raise i'm calling a push. he could just have tp or some pair and a gut shot

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

No way in hell Im folding. I might even MINRAISE the river if he throws out what looks like a goofy $45 blocker and the river card is kind looking.

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

Call turn and river. The phrase "Don't go broke in unraised pots." comes to mind.

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

[ QUOTE ]
*Grunch* You have to fold. He might have played the hand this way with big overcards or a big pocket pair, but he didn't raise preflop, so this is unlikely. He MIGHT do this with top pair (10s), but I think we are way behind his range most of the time here with bottom two.

[/ QUOTE ]

...ummm wow.

Guess this as good a place as any - wtf is up with this *grunch* stuff? Thanks.

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

i think you fold this. all you beat is a pair, and if he's got a T or an over pair, why didn't he reraise the flop, also, if he's as bad as you say he is, there will be a much better spot to get your money in against him.

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

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*Grunch* You have to fold. He might have played the hand this way with big overcards or a big pocket pair, but he didn't raise preflop, so this is unlikely. He MIGHT do this with top pair (10s), but I think we are way behind his range most of the time here with bottom two.

[/ QUOTE ]

...ummm wow.

Guess this as good a place as any - wtf is up with this *grunch* stuff? Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you not know what a grunch is? or would you rather get heavily involved on our hand that only beats top pair and is behind to a very possible straight or set given preflop action?

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

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*Grunch* You have to fold. He might have played the hand this way with big overcards or a big pocket pair, but he didn't raise preflop, so this is unlikely. He MIGHT do this with top pair (10s), but I think we are way behind his range most of the time here with bottom two.

[/ QUOTE ]

...ummm wow.

Guess this as good a place as any - wtf is up with this *grunch* stuff? Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you not know what a grunch is? or would you rather get heavily involved on our hand that only beats top pair and is behind to a very possible straight or set given preflop action?

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling $23 is not getting 'heavily involved'. You may be behind, you may be ahead. The redonk turn line is often weakness, and the OP's read is that SB is a bad player. You're being laid 3:1 and I think you're better way more than 25% here. It's not like your only decisions are shove/raise or fold. Calling and evaluating the river is fine and good.

But yeah, that wasn't my real question/comment. What is a grunch?

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

You are ahead here almost every time. Take whatever line you think will get the most money in vs weakish made hands.

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

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Raise 70$, fold to a push, to check the river in position ?

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Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

grunching is a term that was widely used in the micro limit pages when i played limit

it's when a poster responds without reading the advice in posts above theirs so as to not corrupt themselves by the poor advice contained therein

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

Just calling or raising is fine here. Folding is ABSOLUTELY out of the question. If you raise you should probably call a push. If you just call, you should try to get some reasonable value on the river.

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

U said hes awful...


...i like 70 check behind river and fold to shove line.

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

[ QUOTE ]
grunching is a term that was widely used in the micro limit pages when i played limit

it's when a poster responds without reading the advice in posts above theirs so as to not corrupt themselves by the poor advice contained therein

[/ QUOTE ]

ahhh.. thanks

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

raising the turn sucks. there are a ton of hands he can easily have that beat you - 97, T6, T8, all sets. i dont know why so many people like making this pot bigger than it already is.
just call turn, call a small bet on the river, fold river if he pushes. unlesss you spike a 6 or 8 ofcourse
you are never ahead here if you manage get all in. even the biggest donks dont stack off with AT on this board.
i honestly think the rare times you are ahead in this spot, villain has a redonkulously played AA/KK

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

I hate raising and folding because our hand still has potential to make a boat on the river. If villain is a big fish then raising and calling a shove would be fine but I think it's best to just call here.

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

l

Re: 86s facing a turn donk
 

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*Grunch* You have to fold. He might have played the hand this way with big overcards or a big pocket pair, but he didn't raise preflop, so this is unlikely. He MIGHT do this with top pair (10s), but I think we are way behind his range most of the time here with bottom two.

[/ QUOTE ]

...ummm wow.

Guess this as good a place as any - wtf is up with this *grunch* stuff? Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you not know what a grunch is? or would you rather get heavily involved on our hand that only beats top pair and is behind to a very possible straight or set given preflop action?

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling $23 is not getting 'heavily involved'. You may be behind, you may be ahead. The redonk turn line is often weakness, and the OP's read is that SB is a bad player. You're being laid 3:1 and I think you're better way more than 25% here. It's not like your only decisions are shove/raise or fold. Calling and evaluating the river is fine and good.

But yeah, that wasn't my real question/comment. What is a grunch?

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry for the hostility I thought u were trying to make fun of the advice I was giving in the post and were being sarcastic asking what a grunch was. Yeah its posting without reading comments after u think about it a while-its supposed to be really helpful in improving your thinking.