E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

I'm pretty dead tired, so I wrote an e-mail to FTP for the hell of it. Also, I want a nice T.V. cheaper.


Hi, I thought that the prices in the Iron Man store were a little wack. I'll explain what I mean.

Most of the items in the store (in fact, all except the "Create Your Own Table") can be put into a calculation to find out which has the best value for the Iron Man medals. Here is a list of each item and the worth of each medal:

$600 bonus (3,000 medals) = $0.20 per medal
$300 bonus (1,600 medals) = $0.1875 per medal
5,000 FTP points (150 medals) = $25 (worked out by figuring each 200 FTP points equals $1, as that's how much is subtracted from the MGR, which affects me because I get rakeback) = $0.1666 per medal
$75 Token (400 medals) = $0.1875 per medal
$26 Token (140 medals) = $0.1857 per medal
$535 Tournament Entry (2,750 medals) = $0.1945 per medal
$216 Tournament Entry (1,100 medals) = $0.1963 per medal
Create Your Own Table = Priceless, obviously

Now, I thought it was a little strange that the $600 bonus is a better deal for the player than all tournament entries. Not only do you get a decent portion of the entry back from juice, but a tournament entry is guaranteed to be used on your site, wheras someone could purchase the $600 bonus and just cashout. Even stranger than that was that the people who choose the 5,000 FTP points get totally ripped off! I figure that you would prefer people to choose the points over the other options because I would think FTP doesn't pay full price for each individual item, i.e. they would pay wholesale prices. I understand that the more medals people spend in one go, the better deal they should get, but that doesn't explain the huge difference between the value of the FTP points and the $26 token!

Actually, the whole reason I'm writing this e-mail (besides for my education and the education of others on the 2+2 forum, which BTW FTPDoug should to write up a new answers thread soon =) ) is because I have my eyes set on the plasma screen T.V.s available in the FTP points store, but at the rate I'm going (I play 2/4 NL, about 800 hands a day on average) it will take a couple of months before I can purchase it. I realized that I could buy FTP points at the Iron Man store, but I'd much rather just take the cash than be ripped off by the conversion rate.

So I ask you, FTP, to please either change your prices in the Iron Man store OR add a bigger FTP points item. I think a good example would be 50,000 FTP points for 1,300 medals (conversion rate would be $0.1923 per medal)

Thanks,
DMoogle

P.S. Please also fix the lag, add GOOD security features, turn on my BOOMswitch, etc.

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

Two things.

1. Good idea, I think we will do it.
2. The bonus is not instant cash credited to your account. You get bonus dollars which convert into cash as you play for real money. But since most of the people that reach that level have been Iron several months in a row, it's almost as good as cash as long as they keep playing.

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

full tilt is rigged.

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

[ QUOTE ]
full tilt is rigged.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Two things.

1. Good idea, I think we will do it.
2. The bonus is not instant cash credited to your account. You get bonus dollars which convert into cash as you play for real money. But since most of the people that reach that level have been Iron several months in a row, it's almost as good as cash as long as they keep playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

doug, please unrig your site

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Two things.

1. Good idea, I think we will do it.
2. The bonus is not instant cash credited to your account. You get bonus dollars which convert into cash as you play for real money. But since most of the people that reach that level have been Iron several months in a row, it's almost as good as cash as long as they keep playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

doug, please unrig your site

[/ QUOTE ]


Doug, Pleae rig the site in my favor. Thanks

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

I gotta say I'm impressed. FTP responded within two hours, which seems to be much more faster than their average response time. I also didn't expect FTPDoug to respond in this thread. Thanks Doug! I look forward to seeing new changes. Here's a copy of their response (which isn't a form letter at all, very personalized [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) to my e-mail:

Hello DMoogle,

Thank you for writing to Full Tilt Poker Support.

When we created the Iron Man Store, we did our best to balance all the
items as best we could in terms of value while still keeping the prices
nice round numbers. By your calculation, we priced almost every item
with an approximate value from around $0.185 to $0.195 cents per medal.
As you noted, items with larger medal costs are obviously going to be a
better value then items with smaller medal costs.

One potential reason for the $600 bonus being a better value then the
comparably priced $535 tournament entry is because the $600 is not
applied directly to your cash balance, but is a bonus that must be
earned in the same manner as our 100% initial deposit bonus. You would
not be able to purchase the $600 bonus and cash out, but you must earn
the bonus at $0.06 per Full Tilt Point earned at our tournaments and
ring games, released into your account in increments of $20.

Another factor to keep in mind is that like most other cash bonuses on
Full Tilt Poker, the $300 or $600 Iron Man Store bonus will impact your
MGR.

As for your calculation on the value of the 5000 FTP, I am unable to
verify the accuracy of your final number $0.1666 as the value per medal
as I am not privy to the details of your specific affiliate arrangement.
I think I can safely assume that you are fairly familiar with it and
that $1 is indeed subtracted from your MGR for every 200 FTP you spend.

You write in your email "I figure that you would prefer people to choose
the points over the other options because I would think FTP doesn't pay
full price for each individual item, i.e. they would pay wholesale
prices." To the contrary, we would rather have people at the tables
playing poker then at home watching their new wide screen high
definition plasma television. However, if you do feel the need to watch
television, I'll wager Shana Hiatt looks lovely in high definition on
Poker After Dark. - LOL

All that being said, I feel your recommendation that we make a very
large denomination of points available in the Iron Man store has merit.
I have passed your suggestion along to the appropriate decision makers
for their consideration.

Please allow me to wish you and everyone at 2+2 the best of luck at the
tables. Should you have any questions or concerns, please do not
hesitate to contact us.

Regards,

Eric
Full Tilt Poker Support

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Two things.

1. Good idea, I think we will do it.
2. The bonus is not instant cash credited to your account. You get bonus dollars which convert into cash as you play for real money. But since most of the people that reach that level have been Iron several months in a row, it's almost as good as cash as long as they keep playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

doug, please unrig your site

[/ QUOTE ]


Doug, Pleae rig the site in my favor. Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]


Doug I'd settle for rig-neutral. thx.

Also, 600 bonuses are great. however, I find best way to clear the FTP bonus is to cash out and abandon it.

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I gotta say I'm impressed. FTP responded within two hours, which seems to be much more faster than their average response time. I also didn't expect FTPDoug to respond in this thread. Thanks Doug! I look forward to seeing new changes. Here's a copy of their response (which isn't a form letter at all, very personalized [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) to my e-mail:

Hello DMoogle,

Thank you for writing to Full Tilt Poker Support.......

, we would rather have people at the tables
playing poker then at home watching their new wide screen high
definition plasma television. However, if you do feel the need to watch
television, I'll wager Shana Hiatt looks lovely in high definition on
Poker After Dark. - LOL



[/ QUOTE ]

I Have the 50" HiDef Panasonic Plasma TV, & while she does look good, Shana & Poker after dark is not currently videotaped in HiDef, it is xmitted in 4:3 standard def [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

Still waiting for a response as to whether or not bonus stacks now, FTPDoug...

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

Why you say FTP is rigged? I'm about to put money on there and I'd like a heads up if I shouldn't.

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

Hi Doug, please add Shana Hiatt to your store. kthx.

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

DMoogle: Your calculations for the $600 and $300 bonuses are off b/c they're deducted from your MGR. The $600 bonus is really worth $438 or $0.146/medal.

Clearly the cash bonuses are the WORST buys if you have rakeback.

Furthermore, according to this post (which actually looks at the value of store items) FTPs are worth $0.004 each on average:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=10134485

So 5,000 FTPs are worth ~$20, not $25. Adding the fact that $1 from MGR for every 100 FTPs you redeem makes buying the points with your medals an even worse deal.

Cliffnotes: Use your medals to buy tourney entries.

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

[ QUOTE ]
DMoogle: Your calculations for the $600 and $300 bonuses are off b/c they're deducted from your MGR. The $600 bonus is really worth $438 or $0.146/medal.

Clearly the cash bonuses are the WORST buys if you have rakeback.

[/ QUOTE ]
Everything free is deducted from MGR, not just cash bonuses.

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Doug, please add Shana Hiatt to your store. kthx.

[/ QUOTE ]QFMFT

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Everything free is deducted from MGR, not just cash bonuses.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not true. FTPDoug said in another thread that only the cash bonuses and the FTPs (when you redeem them) are deducted from MGR. He said that tourney entries aren't, unless there's an overlay for the tourney (in which case the overlay is deducted as usual).

Edit: It was FTPSean, not Doug who said that in a previous thread: http://tinyurl.com/22f924

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

[ QUOTE ]
DMoogle: Your calculations for the $600 and $300 bonuses are off b/c they're deducted from your MGR. The $600 bonus is really worth $438 or $0.146/medal.

Clearly the cash bonuses are the WORST buys if you have rakeback.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this true even if you play no bigger than 2/4, where the rake is much larger?

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
DMoogle: Your calculations for the $600 and $300 bonuses are off b/c they're deducted from your MGR. The $600 bonus is really worth $438 or $0.146/medal.

Clearly the cash bonuses are the WORST buys if you have rakeback.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this true even if you play no bigger than 2/4, where the rake is much larger?

[/ QUOTE ]
No matter what stakes you play, the bonus deducts from MGR, and therefore, rakeback.

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

Has this 50,000 point option been added yet??

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

^^no, u can get 25K for 650 medals

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Two things.

1. Good idea, I think we will do it.
2. The bonus is not instant cash credited to your account. You get bonus dollars which convert into cash as you play for real money. But since most of the people that reach that level have been Iron several months in a row, it's almost as good as cash as long as they keep playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

doug, please unrig your site

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently FTPDoug does listen to some people.

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
DMoogle: Your calculations for the $600 and $300 bonuses are off b/c they're deducted from your MGR. The $600 bonus is really worth $438 or $0.146/medal.

Clearly the cash bonuses are the WORST buys if you have rakeback.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this true even if you play no bigger than 2/4, where the rake is much larger?

[/ QUOTE ]
No matter what stakes you play, the bonus deducts from MGR, and therefore, rakeback.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gotcha, but tournaments don't cut into your MGR, making that the best deal I suppose.

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
DMoogle: Your calculations for the $600 and $300 bonuses are off b/c they're deducted from your MGR. The $600 bonus is really worth $438 or $0.146/medal.

Clearly the cash bonuses are the WORST buys if you have rakeback.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this true even if you play no bigger than 2/4, where the rake is much larger?

[/ QUOTE ]
No matter what stakes you play, the bonus deducts from MGR, and therefore, rakeback.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gotcha, but tournaments don't cut into your MGR, making that the best deal I suppose.

[/ QUOTE ]
Correct. I suck at donkaments so I'm just going to stick with the other stuff.

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

Tournaments do cut into MGR. The overlay is divided by the number of players.

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

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Tournaments do cut into MGR. The overlay is divided by the number of players.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah but (A) in my experience there are rarely overlays at FTP, and (B) that would generally be a minuscule amount.

Re: E-mail to FTP re: Iron Man store prices (conversion rates within)
 

That 50k points or even 100k points for 2500 medals is a great idea.
Nice to see FTP support getting on the ball.
For those of us who hate donkaments there should be another option.
Maybe 10,000 medals for a date with Shawna Hyatt?