5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

I make a 3 bet with a QQ or JJ and get 4-bet. Sometimes its an auto-muck because they are nitty, but lots of the super aggro regs do this to me, especially when im 3 betting a lot due to run of good spots. What are you're guys requirments for pushing this back in his face? I know this has 100% to do with feel, just wondering cause I barley ever do, and usually im wrong [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

This is just one of the spots and it seems like an OK fold b/c he is UTG, but hes pretty laggy nontheless.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $5/$10 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $717.00
BB: $1,057.00
UTG: $4,096.00
MP: $985.00
<font color="black">Hero (CO): $1,401.00</font>
BTN: $1,310.00

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 Players)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $35.00</font>, MP folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $125.00</font>, 3 folds, <font color="red">UTG raises to $390.00</font>, Hero folds
Uncalled bet of $265.00 returned to UTG

Pot Size: $265.00

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

Depends how frequent you 3bet them, and what kind of a player you are - but for most frequent 3betters this is a standard push vs any non supernit.

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

i'm pretty sure if you're folding here then villain can show a big profit by 4betting every time he would otherwise fold. it does make it closer to being a fold b/c you have 140 bb's and villain is utg, but i'm still getting ai against a laggy villain. i'd fold JJ though.

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

If they are super aggro as you say than this should be a push more often than not.

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

Oh god, I pump my fists and push.

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

its 140bb so i dont think a push is too great

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

[ QUOTE ]
its 140bb so i dont think a push is too great

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough. I don't fold, though.

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oh god, I pump my fists and push.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, this forum has gone all to hell. (talking to you, not about you)

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

pretty easy muck unless you 3-bet him an absolute tonne.

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

With these specific stacks sizes I will often smoothcall pre, precisely because this happens with some frequency and I really don't think this is an obvious muck or shove, but in fact very very close.

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

[ QUOTE ]
pretty easy muck unless you 3-bet him an absolute tonne.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

wow. i wonder if ppl are folding qq to me when _I_ 4bet. somehow i doubt it.

-Mike

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh god, I pump my fists and push.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, this forum has gone all to hell. (talking to you, not about you)

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you agreeing with me? I am confused.

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

I don`t see how this can be anything other than a call.

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
pretty easy muck unless you 3-bet him an absolute tonne.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[/ QUOTE ]

alright, so you think it's a shove?

Seems like when you re-raise with the best hand the first time, you win like 100 when you have the best hand but are committed to losing 1400 with the worst hand.

If you call here, and the flop is low, and he shoves (1k into 820) do you call? If you do seems like a tonne of reverse implied odds to me.

If the flop is ace high or king high and he shoves, do you call?

What do you think his range is.

If you can do some pretty serious EV calcs to show that I am wrong, you can continue to say "looooooooooooool".

If you just want to be a [censored] dick about it and not give anything to the community then that's fine.

I am pretty happy folding here unless as I said you have been 3-betting him a lot and he is not a player that will only play back with good hands.

He is a lag, you don't know his UTG range, it might be pretty tight. Do you know the table conditions? Is the table full of nits or strong players? If it is his range will be considerably smaller.

I wrote exactly what I thought was correct but you respond with "LoooooooooooooooooL". I am willing to guess that you are probably not very good at poker, as you can't really give me a serious argument back.

If you are a person that just thinks, OMG HIS STATS SAY HE IS LOOSE I AM GOING IN FOR 150BBs here then I am pretty sure you are not playing very well. There are so many different factors that make this decision pivotal and if you want to talk about them go ahead, otherwise go back online and just get all your money in with a mediocre hand in a huge reverse implied situation without really understanding what is going on at all.

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh god, I pump my fists and push.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, this forum has gone all to hell. (talking to you, not about you)

[/ QUOTE ]


Are you agreeing with me? I am confused.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea, sorry for the confusion.

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

This depnds a ton on your image.

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
pretty easy muck unless you 3-bet him an absolute tonne.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[/ QUOTE ]

alright, so you think it's a shove?

Seems like when you re-raise with the best hand the first time, you win like 100 when you have the best hand but are committed to losing 1400 with the worst hand.

If you call here, and the flop is low, and he shoves (1k into 820) do you call? If you do seems like a tonne of reverse implied odds to me.

If the flop is ace high or king high and he shoves, do you call?

What do you think his range is.

If you can do some pretty serious EV calcs to show that I am wrong, you can continue to say "looooooooooooool".

If you just want to be a [censored] dick about it and not give anything to the community then that's fine.

I am pretty happy folding here unless as I said you have been 3-betting him a lot and he is not a player that will only play back with good hands.

He is a lag, you don't know his UTG range, it might be pretty tight. Do you know the table conditions? Is the table full of nits or strong players? If it is his range will be considerably smaller.

I wrote exactly what I thought was correct but you respond with "LoooooooooooooooooL". I am willing to guess that you are probably not very good at poker, as you can't really give me a serious argument back.

If you are a person that just thinks, OMG HIS STATS SAY HE IS LOOSE I AM GOING IN FOR 150BBs here then I am pretty sure you are not playing very well. There are so many different factors that make this decision pivotal and if you want to talk about them go ahead, otherwise go back online and just get all your money in with a mediocre hand in a huge reverse implied situation without really understanding what is going on at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome.

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

lol @ all you fools 3-betting utg raisers, heee ahaawwwwwwwwwwwwww

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh god, I pump my fists and push.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, this forum has gone all to hell. (talking to you, not about you)

[/ QUOTE ]


Are you agreeing with me? I am confused.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea, sorry for the confusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

I laughed

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I dont want to risk my stack here with QQ unless I know SLAG is making a play........I think fold here is good against UTG raiser/3 bet

[/ QUOTE ]

if you're folding here then you better not be 3betting very often at all (assuming villain is paying attention). are you also folding AK?

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont want to risk my stack here with QQ unless I know SLAG is making a play........I think fold here is good against UTG raiser/3 bet

[/ QUOTE ]

if you're folding here then you better not be 3betting very often at all (assuming villain is paying attention). are you also folding AK?

[/ QUOTE ]

shoving AK here is way better than shoving/calling QQ.

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

TresDeuce got owned, depends on the feel but I'd push maybe half the time with QQ.

Re: 5/10 - This happens at least 3x a session...
 

i would never fold this ever. arturius is spot on