super tough spot! flop TPTK in bad position.
 

Second hand of the game, no reads on anyone yet. I dont know if the villan is rasing for free card or has a real hand. I also think MP is on a draw. Should i raise anywhere on the flop or on the turn? i know this is a super tough spot! need help!

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.50/$1
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, 2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, 3 folds.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7.5SB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises</font>, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6.75BB, 3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>.

Re: super tough spot! flop TPTK in bad position.
 

3bet flop

Re: super tough spot! flop TPTK in bad position.
 

3bet the flop, and the spot becomes a lot easier.

Re: super tough spot! flop TPTK in bad position.
 

Since you didn't raise the flop, I'd raise the turn. FWIW on this flop I don't mind waiting for the turn to pop it.

Re: super tough spot! flop TPTK in bad position.
 

terence pls stop posting like 73 hands a day. 3-4 is plenty. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: super tough spot! flop TPTK in bad position.
 

pussy gib.

Gib, I don't see why this flop specifically dictates waiting til the turn? Are you saying this because you expect the value of your hand to change dramatically or because you expect to extract more bets by waiting til the turn?

Re: super tough spot! flop TPTK in bad position.
 

when raised on the flop and you are OOP with a solid top pair or overpair on the flop ... almost always a 3bet (with position you have more options)

Re: super tough spot! flop TPTK in bad position.
 

[ QUOTE ]
pussy gib.

Gib, I don't see why this flop specifically dictates waiting til the turn? Are you saying this because you expect the value of your hand to change dramatically or because you expect to extract more bets by waiting til the turn?

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yeah ... I can't see why you want to wait till the turn to raise ...

maybe if K*(J or T)*(8 or 9) with two tone (and we don't have either)

Re: super tough spot! flop TPTK in bad position.
 

mainly cause of the limit I don't expect to be raised with a straight draw here, therefore I'd c/r the turn for value. Personally I play it either way depending on how I've played previously. Though I'm a little confused to why u think popping the turn is weak?

Re: super tough spot! flop TPTK in bad position.
 

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pussy gib.

Gib, I don't see why this flop specifically dictates waiting til the turn? Are you saying this because you expect the value of your hand to change dramatically or because you expect to extract more bets by waiting til the turn?

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yeah ... I can't see why you want to wait till the turn to raise ...

maybe if K*(J or T)*(8 or 9) with two tone (and we don't have either)

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I prefer 3betting the flop on a 2 tone board, rather than waiting for the turn. I find it easier to play on latter streets against predictable opps.

Re: super tough spot! flop TPTK in bad position.
 

3bet flop or c/r turn

Re: super tough spot! flop TPTK in bad position.
 

but you will be in another tough pot when you get 3bet on the turn.

Re: super tough spot! flop TPTK in bad position.
 

[ QUOTE ]
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pussy gib.

Gib, I don't see why this flop specifically dictates waiting til the turn? Are you saying this because you expect the value of your hand to change dramatically or because you expect to extract more bets by waiting til the turn?

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yeah ... I can't see why you want to wait till the turn to raise ...

maybe if K*(J or T)*(8 or 9) with two tone (and we don't have either)

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I prefer 3betting the flop on a 2 tone board, rather than waiting for the turn. I find it easier to play on latter streets against predictable opps.

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ahhh ... i was thinking that mine initial assumption was wrong (mostly due to this sub thread)

you assume villain here has a King so he will bet the turn 100% ... but what about the guy calling in between (I would rather make him pay extra with whatever [censored] he has)

if this went me bet, guy folds, villain raise ... I would say 3betting and waiting to c/r the turn are about the same thing

Re: super tough spot! flop TPTK in bad position.
 

also....why do you think this is a tough spot? Because you got raised? Give me a range for villian?

Re: super tough spot! flop TPTK in bad position.
 

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if this went me bet, guy folds, villain raise ... I would say 3betting and waiting to c/r the turn are about the same thing

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PB I'm not disputing this, as mentioned earlier I play it either way (depending on previous play), I was just mentioning to OP that waiting for the turn to raise was an option.

Re: super tough spot! flop TPTK in bad position.
 

it takes practice, but one day you'll learn to 3B TPTK

Re: super tough spot! flop TPTK in bad position.
 

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but you will be in another tough pot when you get 3bet on the turn.

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but when you 3 bet the flop it gets easier. if you dont want a tough turn spot, 3 bet that mofo on the flop and play it from there. do you see why this makes it easier?

and yes, I see where Gib is coming from...there are alternate lines to avoid being too predictable