exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

from one to ten, ten being matusow bad and one being daniel negreanu bad?

i say he's about a 3 on that scale. which is really bad. he can barely even get the money from his backer to the cage to buy in before he's broke. i mean, he's bad.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

hes almost as bad as people who talk crap on rich people for sucking at what they do?

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

As bad as your 10=Matusow / 1=Negreanu scale?

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

He's so bad we need two topics on his badness on this forum.

He's the Mike Tyson (late 80's-late 90's) of Poker; back in the day he was at the top of the game but now he can only beat bums, struggles against top people, has gotten rusty, yet is better known that some of the better people.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

lol I thought poker was all about playing with weak players and taking their money. Doh, I must have misunderstood Greenstein when he said that.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
from one to ten, ten being matusow bad and one being daniel negreanu bad?

i say he's about a 3 on that scale. which is really bad. he can barely even get the money from his backer to the cage to buy in before he's broke. i mean, he's bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a good thing you started a new thread for this. It is a very different thread than the discussion about whether Phil Hellmuth is a donk or not. You are a very creative original-thinking person. You are a visionary (idiot)

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
from one to ten, ten being matusow bad and one being daniel negreanu bad?

i say he's about a 3 on that scale. which is really bad. he can barely even get the money from his backer to the cage to buy in before he's broke. i mean, he's bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a good thing you started a new thread for this. It is a very different thread than the discussion about whether Phil Hellmuth is a donk or not. You are a very creative original-thinking person. You are a visionary (idiot)

[/ QUOTE ]

in the other thread, we established that he is a donk of epic proportions. in this thread, i've developed an inovative new way of measuring a player's donkiness. why can't you play ball and put him on the continuum?

jeez. someone tries to bring some insight to the best forum on this site and gets attacked [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

whatever/

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

In the other thread many people established that he isn't a donk (did you read it?).

A scale for how "bad he is" (a little funny when you realize his accomplishments) is just plain stupid and another thread wasn't neccessary.

Go away

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

He is a successful winning player

Who would be an unsuccessful losing player in some of the HSNL lineups.

The end.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

well, he just won $285,000 at the recent HSP taping, so if you want to keep quoting what Barry Greenstein says, feel free...

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
well, he just won $285,000 at the recent HSP taping, so if you want to keep quoting what Barry Greenstein says, feel free...

[/ QUOTE ]

McPhilManLove-

He lost all his winnings back in the same night.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

Dont get mad at Phil because he has the most hold em bracelets, the most cashes, 4 final tables last year and so on. Dont get mad that you, or your friends, will never achieve anything close to that. Dont get mad that you dont understand his playing style because it doesnt conform to your online style. Just move on, man.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Dont get mad at Phil because he has the most hold em bracelets, the most cashes, 4 final tables last year and so on. Dont get mad that you, or your friends, will never achieve anything close to that. Dont get mad that you dont understand his playing style because it doesnt conform to your online style. Just move on, man.

[/ QUOTE ]

I HATE this argument.

JUST BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T WON 10 BRACELETS DOESN'T MEAN WE CAN'T CRITIQUE THEIR PLAY. HE WON THE FREAKING WORLD SERIES TWO YEARS AFTER I WAS BORN AND I HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF POKER THAN HIM.

You haven't played 2000+ mtt's in the past two years so you can't critique MY opinions on who is good and who is bad. That argument INFURIATES me.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dont get mad at Phil because he has the most hold em bracelets, the most cashes, 4 final tables last year and so on. Dont get mad that you, or your friends, will never achieve anything close to that. Dont get mad that you dont understand his playing style because it doesnt conform to your online style. Just move on, man.

[/ QUOTE ]

I HATE this argument.

JUST BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T WON 10 BRACELETS DOESN'T MEAN WE CAN'T CRITIQUE THEIR PLAY. HE WON THE FREAKING WORLD SERIES TWO YEARS AFTER I WAS BORN AND I HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF POKER THAN HIM.

You haven't played 2000+ mtt's in the past two years so you can't critique MY opinions on who is good and who is bad. That argument INFURIATES me.

[/ QUOTE ]

gobbo has spoken. thou shalt shut it.
now, back to my innovative new system for figuring out how bad he is...

any takers?

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

i'll take 10 bracelets.... hundreds of victories.... millions and millions in career earnings (when not alot of people entered and played).... sunglasses and all and not care if people call me bad or good...
results speak for themselves... and last time i checked, phil did win his 10th bracelet.... JUST LAST YEAR!!!

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

Obviously everyone on here should be able to critique someones play. I critique professional athletes plays all the time and they are much better than me...still saying Phil is horrible at poker and trying to figure out a system for how bad he is is beyond retarded when you've accomplished what he has.

Jojo: Stop talking...seriously.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

McUtter do you jerk it to your poster of Phil Hellmuth every night?

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

Look, I don't like the guy at all, I think he's an ass of a person. You can't take away what he's done as a poker player though. Even if you take away all of his accomplishments before the poker boom, he's won 3 of his bracelets since 2003 and had a great year at the '07 wsop, winning almost 1.2 million and cashing 8 times, more than anyone else last year. I really dislike the guy from all of seem from him on television, but as for his play they don't show half of the games he plays in on television and you have to let his record speak for itself. Of course you guys have a right to criticize him but I can only imagine what he would have to say about you record. Ask yourself, how many bracelets do i have? how many wsop cashes have i earned recently? Finally, ask yourself, why isn't anyone criticizing my career on 2+2?

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
McUtter do you jerk it to your poster of Phil Hellmuth every night?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an intelligent contribution by you. Shows your class. I like poker and I like Hellmuth's game and I know not enough people realized how great a WSOP he had last year (a 1st, a 2nd, 4 Final Tables, many cashes to set record, set hold 'em bracelet record, tied total bracelet record, etc). I think his talkative/showman/brat personality ticks some people off (not me). Also sometimes he doesn't play at his best (on shows he doesnt care about?). And his style is different from the very aggressive/new school/on-line style. But I think he is a very canny man. I think he knows things about the game that a lot of people dont, and its not just about playing against weak players because WSOP fields contain great players too.

Its easy for geeks who dont get out much who see a few not-so-great poker hands on tv to decide that someone must be a donk, because they (the geek-who-doesnt-get-out-much) could see a better way to play the hand. I say this to the shut-in geek: Go play 3,000 hands on tv. See if you come off perfectly. See if you would then deserve to have 5 million other geeks critiquing your play. Oh wait, no one wants to actually watch the geek play even one poker hand.

End of story.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oh wait, no one wants to actually watch the geek play even one poker hand.

[/ QUOTE ]Completely not true, if you are defining "geek" as an online, aggressive player (which I think you are). These are some of the best players to watch, and some of the more complex poker IMHO. Did you watch the 2006 USPC this year? That was way more interesting poker than 99% of the "top pro" games that have been shown on TV in the past.

I don't know why you keep talking about the "aggressive/new school/on-line style" as if it were new coke or something. The online players are really great players who understand the game well, and this has nothing to do with any kind of "new style". Selective aggression has always been the key to playing winning poker- Doyle Brunson knows it, Phil Hellmuth knows it, and this so-called "new breed" knows it. Don't buy the hype, though, that the internet has invented something new. It hasn't- just maybe refined some old strategies.

I agree with you that you cannot judge a player based on a few TV mistakes/successes. I don't think PH is a donk- he certainly can beat the game and beat it well. I DO think there are better players, but I'm not really qualified to judge so my opinion doesn't really matter.

Truth is, though, I think some people enjoy tweaking you about Hellmuth and you are cooperating with them by rising to their bait.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

I bring up the new school/online/aggressive thing because that seems to be the style of play that the Hellmuth-bashers respect. I agree that there is some tweaking/baiting going on. It's fine, I dont mind. I also respect the aggressive online player. I respect both styles of play.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

And by geek I meant the Hellmuth/Seidel bashers who are probably unpopular guys in their early 20s who mostly play online in their underpants.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
And by geek I meant the Hellmuth/Seidel bashers who are probably unpopular guys in their early 20s who mostly play online in their underpants.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way... you can NOT be in your thirties. I had you pegged for 15, max.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

nice reading comprehension. nowhere was anyone discussing my age.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
nice reading comprehension. nowhere was anyone discussing my age.

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto... if it is an implied insult to be in your 20s, you must be older, yes?

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

yea he is very bad, i love watching everyone muscle him off hands

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
nice reading comprehension. nowhere was anyone discussing my age.

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto... if it is an implied insult to be in your 20s, you must be older, yes?

[/ QUOTE ]

i was talking about friendless computer geeks in their early 20s. thats all.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

McCutter, I think you really don't know WHAT you are talking about. You put some half-assed opinion out and then you continuously attempt to qualify it and explain it, then you eventually totally reverse yourself. You should just cool out, seriously.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
nice reading comprehension. nowhere was anyone discussing my age.

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto... if it is an implied insult to be in your 20s, you must be older, yes?

[/ QUOTE ]

i was talking about friendless computer geeks in their early 20s. thats all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know which I believe less... that you are over 15, or that you have even a single friend.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

yawn

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

Jesus, when did this forum become 2+2's downie repository?

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
And by geek I meant the Hellmuth/Seidel bashers who are probably unpopular guys in their early 20s who mostly play online in their underpants.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my 30's and underwear is overdressed.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

he is a great player...

except in this hand

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

I'm not 100% sure, but I am starting to think JoJo doesn't like Helmuth?

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
he is a great player...

except in this hand

[/ QUOTE ]

easiest avoided roll ever.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not 100% sure, but I am starting to think JoJo doesn't like Helmuth?

[/ QUOTE ]

it's not that i don't like him. i bet he's a supernice guy away from the table, what with his refusal to take his hat and sunglasses off wherever he goes.

i just have no respect for his extraordinarily bad play.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Jesus, when did this forum become 2+2's downie repository?

[/ QUOTE ]

4/20/07 apparently.

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
in this thread, i've developed an inovative new way of measuring a player's donkiness.

jeez. someone tries to bring some insight to the best forum on this site and gets attacked [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]


measure his donkiness by his WSOP bracelets or times in the money

nice thread "veteran"....douche

Re: exactly how bad IS phil hellmuth?
 

AK = the nuts