This is why bad players just call pf
 

Villain was 30/5 through 15 hands. He has about 170 left once we get to the flop.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG+1 ($683.35)
MP1 ($242)
MP2 ($256.75)
CO ($194.60)
Button ($311.10)
Hero ($406.50)
BB ($355.15)
UTG ($538.65)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $4, UTG+1 calls $4, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $20</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $72</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $52.

Flop: ($156) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $85</font>,

Re: This is why bad players just call pf
 

wtf? reraising here is really bad

Re: This is why bad players just call pf
 

i would probably just call preflop, and if u did reraise like that i think you sorta have to bet the flop

as played i think calling and folding are pretty much equally bad so mb u should just cut your losses and muck it

Re: This is why bad players just call pf
 

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wtf? reraising here is really bad

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Whyyyyyyy?

Re: This is why bad players just call pf
 

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wtf? reraising here is really bad

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The title references the situation of an overcard flopping. I think calling pf is just fine, but don't fully understand why you think it is "really bad." At the very worst, it's towards the bottom end of my range here.

Re: This is why bad players just call pf
 

I probably wouldn't 3-bet a pfr 5 player with JJ.

Re: This is why bad players just call pf
 

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I probably wouldn't 3-bet a pfr 5 player with JJ.

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notice hand sample though

Re: This is why bad players just call pf
 

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I probably wouldn't 3-bet a pfr 5 player with JJ.

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15 hands. The 90% confidence interval for his PFR is probably like 3-20%.. aka, it means nothing.

Re: This is why bad players just call pf
 

i 3bet here 100%. once i get here, gross spot, i guess crai.

Re: This is why bad players just call pf
 

I didn't see it, ty.

Re: This is why bad players just call pf
 

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i 3bet here 100%. once i get here, gross spot, i guess crai.

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How do you interpret his bet size with relation to his stack?

Re: This is why bad players just call pf
 

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i 3bet here 100%. once i get here, gross spot, i guess crai.

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How do you interpret his bet size with relation to his stack?

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i think it can be a pretty wide range, including big hands, AK-type hands, and stuff like 88 that's going to say "@#$%" and call the c/r.

Re: This is why bad players just call pf
 

Id 3bet here pf most of the time but calling is definitely a fine play. Now that we r here Id bet flop call shove

Re: This is why bad players just call pf
 

without a better read id usually just call pf. but reraising cant be too bad.
i guess i would lead this flop and call a shove then. c/f here feels strange...

Re: This is why bad players just call pf
 

the guy raised two limpers from earliesh position, he's shown a tendency to limp rather than raise, so we are probably behind his range. Reraising is just setting ourselves up to get owned when he has a bigger pair. Calling gives us a chance to hit a set against his bigger pairs and we can invest a bet postflop (the same money we spent reraising) to find out if we're good on rag flops.

Re: This is why bad players just call pf
 

Does anyone think c/r or c/c(pretend he shoved) is better the b/c?

Re: This is why bad players just call pf
 

I 3 bet here pre 98% of the time, and this is probably one of those rare occasions that I would just call given his stats. This spot sucks and you are likely behind, but given how you got here c/ring all in is probably the best line.

Re: This is why bad players just call pf
 

LOL PF is fine. The guys played 15 hands. His stats are pretty much meaningless.

Looks like c/r the flop is the way to go.

Re: This is why bad players just call pf
 

Umm, guys, this is full ring. Reraising here is suicide.

Re: This is why bad players just call pf
 

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the guy raised two limpers from earliesh position, he's shown a tendency to limp rather than raise, so we are probably behind his range. Reraising is just setting ourselves up to get owned when he has a bigger pair. Calling gives us a chance to hit a set against his bigger pairs and we can invest a bet postflop (the same money we spent reraising) to find out if we're good on rag flops.

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Did everyone miss the fact this is FR and not 6-max? I agree w/ soah here. FWIW I would much prefer this play with SCs or even trash. That way you won't stack yourself vs. QQ/KK when you get married to your hand.

As far as the actual hand goes, I can't say that it matters one way or another once you're there. His range is probably AK/AQ/AJ/JJ/QQ/KK/AA and some small % of the time a small pair. It's incredibly unlikely a random FR player will raise up some EP limpers and then call a RR from the blinds with total trash. That's even a generous range, but I didn't want it to be that tight.