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gg AJ?

no you fail at suicide too.

Re: 5.20 sopranos

How many are left after this weeks?

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YES! BITE THE [censored] CURB BITCH

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best episode of the show to date, and i don't even think it's close

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probably my favorite episode so far this season. i can better appreciate what some of the earlier, weaker episodes of this season have been building up to thematically.

(but i am a weirdo)

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Two episodes left after this one.

Just when it was starting to get consistently interesting again.

I think i may throw away my tv after the final season of The Wire.

Re: 5.20 sopranos

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How many are left after this weeks?

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Didn't it say after the preview that it was coming in "Two Weeks"? Did anyone else catch that? If so is there a 2 hour finale or are the last two an hour each?

Re: 5.20 sopranos

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How many are left after this weeks?

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Didn't it say after the preview that it was coming in "Two Weeks"? Did anyone else catch that? If so is there a 2 hour finale or are the last two an hour each?

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It's not on next week. They always take The Sopranos off over Memorial Day Weekend.

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best episode of the show to date, and i don't even think it's close

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Great episode, but its nearly impossible to top Pine Barrens.

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At some point these episodes will come out on DVD, and then I will take a few weeks and rewatch this show in order. And then I'll be sad there's no more to watch.

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[ QUOTE ]
At some point these episodes will come out on DVD, and then I will take a few weeks and rewatch this show in order. And then I'll be sad there's no more to watch.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

at least it will take 3days if you don't sleep, likely a month to get through it with sleep

Re: 5.20 sopranos

I think they are spending way to much time with the AJ thing unless they are setting something up. But what I really thought was funny:

Dr Melfi: Maybe he knew the rope was too long and wouldn't pull him under.

Tony: Or he is an idiot. Historically that has always been the case.

Re: 5.20 sopranos

Amazing episode. Just a powerful scene when Tony saves AJ and they take him to the hospital after that. The curbing scene was crazy too - Tony played the role of a crazy father losing it perfectly.

I also thought it was hilarious when Sil was reading "How to Clean Almost Anything". Definitely got a good laugh at that one.

Re: 5.20 sopranos

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
best episode of the show to date, and i don't even think it's close

[/ QUOTE ]

Great episode, but its nearly impossible to top Pine Barrens.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Pine Barrens was a great bit of suspense - a terrific idea for a story and it worked very well. The entire episode was about that incident, IIRC. But it involved two lesser characters in the show.

There were so many phenomenal lines and camera shots.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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best episode of the show to date, and i don't even think it's close

[/ QUOTE ]

Great episode, but its nearly impossible to top Pine Barrens.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Pine Barrens was a great bit of suspense - a terrific idea for a story and it worked very well. The entire episode was about that incident, IIRC. But it involved two lesser characters in the show.

There were so many phenomenal lines and camera shots.

[/ QUOTE ]

Chris and Pauly are lesser characters of the show?

Re: 5.20 sopranos

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The Pine Barrens was a great bit of suspense - a terrific idea for a story and it worked very well. The entire episode was about that incident, IIRC. But it involved two lesser characters in the show.

There were so many phenomenal lines and camera shots.

[/ QUOTE ]

Chris and Pauly are lesser characters of the show?

[/ QUOTE ]

Paulie yes, Chris no. That episode went a long way to establishing both of them. Still, this season has reinforced that the show is about Tony.

Re: 5.20 sopranos

The scene of Tony retaliating against Coco is absolute gold. That would have to go down as one of the all time great scenes of this entire show. Major adrenaline rush for the audience.

Whatever happened to Artie and Charmagne Bucco, and Vesuvio?

Re: 5.20 sopranos

When did it become fashionable to write 5.20 instead of 5/20?

Err, I mean, another solid episode. I might be one of the only ones who likes the AJ stuff. For those who don't like it, keep in mind it is just another catalyst leading into the eventual war with NY. Tony wants to show his men that he isn't going to take the cowards way out like his son.

Re: 5.20 sopranos

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But what I really thought was funny:

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I laughed my ass off when after Tony stomped on Coco's head the subtitle comes up "get the mop". [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: 5.20 sopranos

Great ep. The scene at the pool right after Tony rescues AJ was really intense. Iler is not a great actor but he did an awesome job in that scene.

Do people think Tony and AJ are really depressed, or are they just manipulative complainers who use depression as a crutch, like Carmela was implying?

Also found the scene with Melfi and her therapist interesting, as he was implying that Tony was just pulling a con job on Melfi in therapy.

Re: 5.20 sopranos

I did enjoy this episode, though not much really happened. There's so many plot points that I want to be finished up and I can't see how that'll happen in two episodes. That's kind of frustrating. I've always like Artie Buco and it seems like he won't be making another appearance.

It seems to me that Tony might be ashamed of A.J. because he sees himself in his son. If you remember flashbacks we've seen of Tony as a child show that he was a bit of crying puss just like A.J.

Looking forward to the next two episodes. I really hope the series ends well.

Re: 5.20 sopranos

[ QUOTE ]
Great ep. The scene at the pool right after Tony rescues AJ was really intense. Iler is not a great actor but he did an awesome job in that scene.

Do people think Tony and AJ are really depressed, or are they just manipulative complainers who use depression as a crutch, like Carmela was implying?

Also found the scene with Melfi and her therapist interesting, as he was implying that Tony was just pulling a con job on Melfi in therapy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tony and AJ are without a doubt depressed - Carmela's claim that they 'use' it seems right to me, but also a little unfair. What struck me about the group therapy session was that Anthony's so-called trauma were really illusions. Still, depression can easily be 'used' by people to ensure that no one confronts them about anything - that if every little thing in their life sets them off, that the big problems pass by unnoted.

Re: 5.20 sopranos

i also thought the scene in aj's bedroom between meadow and aj was very well written. seemed like a hard scene to pull off properly.

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Also found the scene with Melfi and her therapist interesting

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am I the only one that can't stand her therapist?

besides Janice, I think he's the person I'd most like to see die(not sure how it would get written into the storyline)

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Two episodes left after this one.

Just when it was starting to get consistently interesting again.

I think i may throw away my tv after the final season of The Wire.

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i dont know what to add to this, other then hd sports and cool discovery channel shows, you're basically right.

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Also found the scene with Melfi and her therapist interesting

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am I the only one that can't stand her therapist?

besides Janice, I think he's the person I'd most like to see die(not sure how it would get written into the storyline)

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well, I'm not sure if I dislike him as a character in the show (and in Janice's case, I hate her so very much) because it's funny how while he tries to be a therapist he's really just a fan of Tony's, and she's his outlet.

3 extremely intense moments:

Tony and AJ obviously. It wasn't necessarily the holding of him, but just seeing how Tony realizes what's going on and then frantically jumps in, and then once AJ is out, he doesn't know whether to be furiated (he pushes him or grabs his head for a second) and then holds him. Really really moving moment, it really just emulated exactly how Tony feels about his son.

Meadow getting threatened. Not like I thought he'd actually do anything, but for whatever reason I really felt tense during that scene. Not sure whether it was for Meadow's well-being, or the implications of this action, or maybe the fact that even though Tony is 'evil', I feel his family is innocent... I don't know.

Then Tony and the 'curb'.... it just felt freaking good to see Tony kicking major ass again and not giving a [censored].

I think this is a top 5 episode probably... I really really need to go back and watch them all again though.

Can't believe only 2 eps left. Before this run started I was thinking it was time for the Soprano's to end it's run, now I am extremely saddened by the fact that they are really done in 3 weeks. I hope the finale is extended.

Love the show. Any bets on who gets whacked next week? In the preview for next time, it kind of looked like <font color="white"> AJ was running away from something.... also we DID see a quick glimpse of Janice looking startled, please baby Jesus tell me she's targeted </font>

Re: 5.20 sopranos

[ QUOTE ]
Great ep. The scene at the pool right after Tony rescues AJ was really intense. Iler is not a great actor but he did an awesome job in that scene.

Do people think Tony and AJ are really depressed, or are they just manipulative complainers who use depression as a crutch, like Carmela was implying?

Also found the scene with Melfi and her therapist interesting, as he was implying that Tony was just pulling a con job on Melfi in therapy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tony and AJ are really depressed. I recognize a lot of the symptoms. I get a lot of insight from the therapy sessions.

Great episode! Tony finding the tooth in his cuff during family counselling. Awesome

Re: 5.20 sopranos

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Whatever happened to Artie and Charmagne Bucco, and Vesuvio?

[/ QUOTE ]

I figured their story was essentially settled last season.

Remember how the scene ended with him digging into an old-school recipe book after getting defensive with Charmaine (wrt her confronting him about annoying the customers) and how he said they were going to get whatever he decided to make for them? I interpreted this to mean that Artie finally accepted his lot in life, that he was returng to his true behind-the-scenes chef calling.

Gonna miss those hot [censored] juggs of hers, though.

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In every interview I've ever seen Peter Bogdonovich is exactly that tedious. But he did eff the young Cybil Shepherd.

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I did enjoy this episode, though not much really happened.

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ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR [censored] MIND????????????????????

ps: one of the best episodes of TV all time.
you know its a great episode when you feel uneasy in the saftey of your own home.

pps: god i really hope phil and his whole crew get wrecked, i have hated him from day 1.

ppps: i really hope paulie gets seriously violent.

Re: 5.20 sopranos

Wow, they are definitely building up to a series finale that is going to definitely compete for the best hour of television ever.

Also, I got really misty eyed and came close to shedding a tear during the Tony/Melfi scene when he made the bus analogy. It really made me think about my childhood growing up with my mother as a SAHM and how in a way, there have been times in my adult life where I've been trying to "get back on the bus".

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Who was Sil talkin about when he said "He's been playin both sides of the fence"?

I think he was talking about Paulie and the NY family.

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wow meadow was the hottest she has ever been in the scene where she was getting harrassed

Re: 5.20 sopranos

Sopranos Rewind: The Second Coming
Posted by Alan Sepinwall May 21, 2007 12:29AM
Categories: The Sopranos
WARNING: This column contains major plot spoilers for last night's "Sopranos" episode.

Sometimes, it's not the fire that burns you. It's the juices.

Two episodes ago, in "Walk Like a Man," Tony suggested that Chris pull a steak off the barbecue because it would continue to cook in its own juices, even away from the flame. At the time, it was an apt metaphor for the growing resentment Chris and Tony were feeling for each other in the aftermath of Adriana's death. But it applies even more to last night's "The Second Coming," where nearly every character is stewing in the juices of some very old beef.

Phil is still after Tony about the ancient murder of his brother Billy; he makes a not-so-veiled reference to it when he says of Chris' widow that grief takes longer the closer the dead person was to you. A.J. botches a suicide attempt, then tries to justify it with sob stories from seasons past. Carmela finally unloads on Tony, not only for passing on "The Soprano Curse" to their son, but because she's tired of hearing about his depression: "You have any idea what it's like to spend day after day with somebody who is constantly complaining?"

When talk of A.J.'s near-fatal plunge into the Soprano family pool leads some of the other Family captains to acknowledge their own children's shaky mental health, Paulie suggests it's all the toxins these kids have been exposed to for their entire lives (in an episode where Tony's guys are still dumping asbestos into the Meadowlands). In this environment, it doesn't matter when the initial exposure or tragedy was; it stays with you for years, maybe your whole life.

A.J. tries to kill himself -- in the pool where Tony's beloved ducks once represented his desire for a happy family -- after too much time studying the W.B. Yeats poem that lends its title to the episode. It's the second time someone on the show has quoted it; in season five's "Cold Cuts," Melfi used the famous "Things fall apart" line with Tony, and Yeats' bleak outlook on the future of civilization applies to this whole season. The center of Tony's world -- the men he loved and trusted most -- is coming undone. Bacala. Junior. Paulie. Hesh. Chris. Either humiliated or marginalized or dead at Tony's hands. The week after killing his surrogate son, Tony barely gets home in time to save his actual son's life, in one of the more harrowing sequences the show's ever done.

And then there's Phil. Question: If you locked Phil and Paulie in a room together, whose air of entitlement and martyrdom would suffocate the other one first? But where Paulie's too dumb and relatively low-ranking to cause much pain and suffering through his woe-is-me routine (save to the odd civilian like Minn Matrone or Jason Barone), Phil is just clever enough and far too powerful to be dismissed. No way his man Coco feels confident enough to harass Meadow, the daughter of a boss -- even the boss of Jersey -- unless he knows he'll get Phil's backing on it. Back in "Stage 5," Phil told Butchie he was done with compromises, and here he explains to Tony -- who's never done any significant prison time -- that in the can, "compromise" meant, at best, getting a very pale imitation of what you wanted. Phil won't compromise on the asbestos deal because he's itching for a war with Tony -- a war he's willing to wage only because of his huge manpower advantage. (Witness the way he hides from Tony and Little Carmine in the little turret of his suburban castle; he's a coward at heart.)

But the show's built up to wars before -- both within New York and between New York and New Jersey -- and always backed off at the last minute. With only two episodes left, is there still time for one?

Whatever happens over the final two hours, don't expect anyone to get out of the life. We've been told time and again over the last two years -- with Eugene and Vito and Chris -- that there's no escape from the Family, and "The Second Coming" provides even more reminders.

Midway through the episode, Melfi's own therapist, the smug Dr. Kupferberg, tells her of a study suggesting not only that sociopaths can't be helped by traditional "talk therapy," but that it can make them worse, help them justify their worst traits. As omniscient viewers of the TV show, we know that Kupferberg has a point, that Tony usually lies too much to get anything useful out of Melfi (last week's dream session where he confessed to killing Pussy and Tony B. was more productive than most of the real ones), and that he sometimes uses her to map out strategy. Most times, he's running a scam on Melfi, which is why he's able to spot A.J.'s lame excuse-making in that endless family session with Dr. Vogel.

But Tony -- who's not even bothering to hide his newfound Livia-ness with multiple "Poor you!"s -- does have the occasional moment of insight, as he does when explaining part of the meaning of his "I get it!" peyote revelation from last week. Mothers, he says, are like buses: "They're the vehicle that gets us here. They drop us off and go on their way, they continue on their journey, and our problem is we continue trying to get back on the bus instead of just let it go."

Only someone with Livia for a parent would view motherhood that way, but the Family functions as a bus, too, one that everyone's either afraid or incapable of staying off for long.

Meadow reveals that she's dating another son of a wiseguy (Patrick Parisi, whom Patsy had earlier acknowledged "can be a moody (expletive deleted) sometimes") and has now given up on med school in favor of becoming a lawyer -- two choices guaranteed to keep her involved in her father's lifestyle in some way. (Meadow being Meadow, she lets the man in her life talk her into it.)

Meadow had her chance to get off the bus for good, but instead she's inching towards a lifetime bus pass. Carmela had two chances -- first when that elderly shrink told her to leave Tony, then when she actually threw him out -- and both times she couldn't do it. Vito drove home to his own death, so great was the pull of his old life. Adriana couldn't leave Christopher and died because of him. Chris in turn couldn't leave Tony, and now he's gone to Hell for him.

Getting back to Yeats, one of the lines that transfixes A.J. is the notion that "the best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity." On this show, "best" is a relative term -- of the regular characters, Melfi's the only genuinely good person -- but there's no lack of contenders for "worst." And they're all filled with their own stupid, destructive passionate intensity, even if what made them passionate happened so long ago that -- like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that vexes A.J. so -- they can't really remember how the fire got started. But so long as those juices keep flowing, they'll keep cooking.

Some other thoughts on "The Second Coming":

-If you're Silvio Dante, will there ever be a more useful book to read than "How to Clean Practically Everything"? Maybe he can loan it to the waitstaff at Coco's restaurant.

-Michael Imperioli remains in the opening credits, while Vince Curatola (Johnny Sack) has been gone for weeks. Show of respect to an original castmember, or hint that Chris will pop up in a dream sequence soon?

-One of the readers of the Sopranos blog reminded me last week of Tony's story from "Soprano Home Movies" about the brain dead little boy who fell into a pool, and the season has been littered with talk of dead children and babies, including all of Tony's infant car seat references last week. So what does Tony say after he gets A.J. out of the pool? "You're all right, baby. You're all right."

-What kind of finesse has to be involved in a curb-stomping like the one Tony gave Coco without actually killing him?

-As usual, the show is taking Memorial Day weekend off, so the next new episode won't air until June 3, with the series finale on June 10.

Re: 5.20 sopranos

AWESOME episode, one of the best ever in an already stellar season. It sucks this show is ending.

Regarding last episode in particular. I didn't quite get Phil Leotardo's anger at the end, or the glass eye guy's shock at what Tony was doing/had done. I mean, wtf did they expect him to do when his daughter is threatened in public like that? Obviously he's going to retaliate, I'm surprised he didn't blow the guy's brains out.

So, is the reaction from NY all an act, and were they trying start a war? Or do Phil & Co. genuinely believe that Tony went "too far" or something like that?

It just seems crazy to me that they would think Tony would respond to something directly involving his daughter with anything less than immediate bloody retribution.

Re: 5.20 sopranos

[ QUOTE ]
AWESOME episode, one of the best ever in an already stellar season. It sucks this show is ending.

Regarding last episode in particular. I didn't quite get Phil Leotardo's anger at the end, or the glass eye guy's shock at what Tony was doing/had done. I mean, wtf did they expect him to do when his daughter is threatened in public like that? Obviously he's going to retaliate, I'm surprised he didn't blow the guy's brains out.

So, is the reaction from NY all an act, and were they trying start a war? Or do Phil & Co. genuinely believe that Tony went "too far" or something like that?

It just seems crazy to me that they would think Tony would respond to something directly involving his daughter with anything less than immediate bloody retribution.

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1. Phil doesn't know that there was something said about his daughter. Tony may just be claiming that. Since tensions are already high between them, Phil has the right to think that Tony is simply 'using' their discord to beat the [censored] out of one of Phil's guys.

This episode had so many great shots and lines as I said, but I think my favorite was when Phil was yelling out of the house at Tony and Carmine. After their conversation is over, Carmine says, exasperated, 'Why is Phil like that?' and the look on Tony's face says that he knows EXACTLY why - that Phil suffers from depression the same way Tony does.