is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

[site removed]

Look at all the FTP pro greats who lose lose lose ... and if you figure $/hour or ROI it's bad news even for the winners.

Even JohnnyBax isn't making much $. Not hundreds of $K like you'd assume. More like avg white collar worker.

Watching his videos I thought Rizen was killing the game. Apparently not.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

there is NO variance in MTTs

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

Isn't Risen mainly a cash monkey?

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Even JohnnyBax isn't making much $.

[/ QUOTE ]


HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHA
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLOLOOOOOOOOOOOOLOOOOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLL OOOOOOOOO

So on, and so forth

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
there is NO variance in MTTs

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
there is NO variance in MTTs

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

My bankroll begs to differ

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

Could some of you be in denial ? If it wasn't for one big win on FTP, Bax would be a loser in 225 tournies on FTP.

Even as a winner he's only up $40K in 9 months.

And he is considered probably the best in the game. Definitely not a one-hit wunderkid.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Could some of you be in denial ? If it wasn't for one big win on FTP, Bax would be a loser in 225 tournies on FTP.

Even as a winner he's only up $40K in 9 months.

And he is considered probably the best in the game. Definitely not a one-hit wunderkid.

[/ QUOTE ]

THE WHISTLES GO

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Could some of you be in denial ? If it wasn't for one big win on FTP, Bax would be a loser in 225 tournies on FTP.

Even as a winner he's only up $40K in 9 months.

And he is considered probably the best in the game. Definitely not a one-hit wunderkid.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do realize wins are where all your profit come from, right? So it's kinda dumb to say "well without this win he'd be a loser" because, well, DUH of course he's not going to profit much if at all if you take out a win because all the monies are made in the top spots

Pretty much the life of an MTTer is slow bankroll depletion until each big score boosts it a lot, that's just how the game is.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

OP is right, JB doesn't play on any site besides FTP and 225 tournaments is a v large sample size.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

any chance this is just spam for the linked site?

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Could some of you be in denial ?


[/ QUOTE ]

Is it possible your ignorant?

Bax is exceedingly wealthy.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
any chance this is just spam for the linked site?

[/ QUOTE ]

That actually is an awesome site I used to use it when I first started on FTP and didn't know about OPR. It's only problem is that unlike OPR or pokerdb it only tracks FTP so it's use is extremely limited.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

I don't know how wealthy Bax is or isn't right now, or what portion does or doesn't derive from his poker play (independent of other businesses such as PokerXFactor, or his investments).

What I do know is he was trading stocks for many years, notably at one very successful short selling firm. Sheets is also from a trading background. Both of them were probably quite wealthy before they became poker pros.

Yes, variance is expected to be high. But look at the breakdown of games. It's not all $400K guarantees. It's not all swinging for the fences. You'd expect a better showing overall.

This is reminding of my years playing the horses. Gradually I learned that there were almost no truly professional handicappers. Sure, guys who hit it huge one day and then made a career spending the profits for the next 10 years. That's not the same thing as being a pro.

A lot of the famous handicappers who write books, columns, etc. are actually lifelong losers at the racetrack.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know how wealthy Bax is or isn't right now, or what portion does or doesn't derive from his poker play (independent of other businesses such as PokerXFactor, or his investments).

What I do know is he was trading stocks for many years, notably at one very successful short selling firm. Sheets is also from a trading background. Both of them were probably quite wealthy before they became poker pros.

Yes, variance is expected to be high. But look at the breakdown of games. It's not all $400K guarantees. It's not all swinging for the fences. You'd expect a better showing overall.

This is reminding of my years playing the horses. Gradually I learned that there were almost no truly professional handicappers. Sure, guys who hit it huge one day and then made a career spending the profits for the next 10 years. That's not the same thing as being a pro.

A lot of the famous handicappers who write books, columns, etc. are actually lifelong losers at the racetrack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok I'll give you a real answer, 225 tournaments is nothing as far as sample size goes and bax plays mostly on stars, as evidenced by his less than 1 tournament a day over your sample size of 225 tournaments over 9 months.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

A few points:

1) The link you provided only shows stats for FTP. Players play more on PS, and it's been around a lot longer. Also, you're completely disregarding live results. To show a link that only shows FTP results and them lament on how a player (who has over $1mil in live winnings and 6 figure profit on PS) "might be a losing player" is very ignorant.

2) Very few people actually come close to understanding the variance in mtts. A sample of 1,000 20/180's MIGHT be a sufficient sample size. But to give a good sample size for a tournament such as the Sunday Million...well...I don't even want to think about how many tournaments it'd take.

3) I don't even want to think about the amount of money team SMD has made from backing.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

LMAO at comparing betting horses to playing poker

When you're playing a parimutual betting pool and the track takes out 17% LOL

Beating horses is pretty much impossible except for very rare occasions, and anyone that claims they're a professional handicapper (horses or sports, even) is a fraud almost guaranteed.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

Actually, 225 tournies is a pretty good representative sample size. Bax's total tournies for 1st 5.5 months of 2007 is 569.

http://www.officialpokerrankings.com/pok...5A21C072E4.html

Bax is tracking to make $300k pre-taxes from online tournies in 2007. $300K is about the avg starting salary of an options trader on the street. No wonder Strasser is headed in that direction.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Could some of you be in denial ?


[/ QUOTE ]

Is it possible your ignorant?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, 225 tournies is a pretty good representative sample size. Bax's total tournies for 1st 5.5 months of 2007 is 569.

http://www.officialpokerrankings.com/pok...5A21C072E4.html

Bax is tracking to make $300k pre-taxes from online tournies in 2007. $300K is about the avg starting salary of an options trader on the street. No wonder Strasser is headed in that direction.

[/ QUOTE ]

being an options trader is a lot harder than being a poker player

and bax makes a lot more than just his profit in MTTs

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, 225 tournies is a pretty good representative sample size.

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense, but why would you believe this? Particularly if we're talking primarily huge field tournaments (stars rebuy, nightly 100k, million, second chance, warmup, etc.) 225 tournaments is a joke.

Steve

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

Is being a poker player easier than being a software developer ? Figure a seasoned contract developer makes $100 hr. That's $200K annual at 40 hrs a week. At 60 hrs/week that's $300K. With zero risk. And that's not "best in the business". That's just a seasoned expert developer.

Chris Ferguson said it best "If you're smart enough to be a poker pro you're smart enough to make a lot more money doing something else."

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

Umm like no software engineers make 300k, very very few anyway. You're looking at 80k tops intro and kind of a low ceiling.

Plus, coding really blows, and poker does not. Actually, poker does blow, but at least it's more enjoyable than being a code monkey.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, 225 tournies is a pretty good representative sample size. Bax's total tournies for 1st 5.5 months of 2007 is 569.

http://www.officialpokerrankings.com/pok...5A21C072E4.html

Bax is tracking to make $300k pre-taxes from online tournies in 2007. $300K is about the avg starting salary of an options trader on the street. No wonder Strasser is headed in that direction.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bax made his money in the market long before he made it playing poker. He's also a WSOP bracelet winner and has a total of $1.3 million worth of cashes in live events to accompany his online cashes.

You should really try and get your facts straight before you go posting random nonsense in public. You don't know a thing about Bax or what it's like to be a tournament 'pro'.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

A peek into baltosar's mind:

"hmmmm. Today I am going to barge into a poker forum and start various arguments with the poker players! How should I begin? Oh! Let's see... I'll make ignorant, ridiculous accusations about top tournament players. My logic will be retarded and I will have no idea what I am talking about, but BOY will it piss them off! Once I have successfully been ridiculous and established my image as a moron, I will then change the arguments to other random, stupid topics. How funny would it be to play devils advocate and berate the poker players about how their profession stacks up to Stock Traders and Software Developers! lol, i'm so clever. These morans don't understand the value of a job that comes with NO RISK LOLS. OMG, now I can find quotes from famous poker players that will piss them off. ooooooooooooooo boy!"

etc

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

God you are a moron, that site isn't even correct. Hoodini won 68k FTOPS last summer and hes up like 40k on the site lol.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
A peek into baltosar's mind:

"hmmmm. Today I am going to barge into a poker forum and start various arguments with the poker players! How should I begin? Oh! Let's see... I'll make ignorant, ridiculous accusations about top tournament players. My logic will be retarded and I will have no idea what I am talking about, but BOY will it piss them off! Once I have successfully been ridiculous and established my image as a moron, I will then change the arguments to other random, stupid topics. How funny would it be to play devils advocate and berate the poker players about how their profession stacks up to Stock Traders and Software Developers! lol, i'm so clever. These morans don't understand the value of a job that comes with NO RISK LOLS. OMG, now I can find quotes from famous poker players that will piss them off. ooooooooooooooo boy!"

etc

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds about right.

I can't believe I wasted my time responding to this.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

I'll take 300k a year in mtts over a real job. Are you giving that away?

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

lol seasoned software developer making 300k, you're completely insane dude.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

Sheets and Bax are worth 8 figures.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

This is a forum full of online MTT pros.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Umm like no software engineers make 300k, very very few anyway. You're looking at 80k tops intro and kind of a low ceiling.

Plus, coding really blows, and poker does not. Actually, poker does blow, but at least it's more enjoyable than being a code monkey.

[/ QUOTE ]

As an ex-software engineer who is now an online tournament pro I can safely Q this for MFT, even though I think OP was probably trolling at least a little.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Umm like no software engineers make 300k, very very few anyway. You're looking at 80k tops intro and kind of a low ceiling.

Plus, coding really blows, and poker does not. Actually, poker does blow, but at least it's more enjoyable than being a code monkey.

[/ QUOTE ]

As an ex-software engineer who is now an online tournament pro I can safely Q this for MFT, even though I think OP was probably trolling at least a little.

[/ QUOTE ]

I went to school for CS and realized my sophomore year I was never going to be able to handle sitting in front of a computer coding all day for a job, especially with such limited advancement opportunities in the field. I was looking at working 60 hour or more weeks and intro salaries under 100k with a cap of probably only 150k or so, [censored] that [censored] I want to be balla

Now I sit in front of the computer all day anyway, but at least it's kinda by choice.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

I specifically titled the thread re online tourney pros.

I don't think my questions are unreasonable. It's extraordinarily difficult to be a consistent winner in online tournies. There's enough data points on the tracking sites to show that. You can't look at the 5000% ROI guys, with relatively few data points. You have to look at the 125% ROI guys, with lots of data points. There's a recent article on PocketFives about tournies v. cash and what a relatively raw deal tournies are.

Re sw dev -- I don't see a huge difference in the glamour factor in reality. Either way you're involved in what can easily become a very anti-social profession, staring at a screen by yourself all day and night.

A lot of these young online players who stay up all night by themselves will get impossibly sick of it in a few years. Right now there's an illusion of glamour because of all the television coverage and overnight multi-millionaires.

Live tournies are even more difficult to make a living at than online. The house take is much higher, like 20% (or even higher -- talk about comparisons with horses !) versus 7.5%. You've got travel expenses and the time lost travelling, games are slow and you can't multi-table, no sophisticated sw tools at your disposal, you can't do other things at the same time, like watch the kids, etc.

This seems to happens whenever a certain area of gambling gets hot, like day trading in the late 90s. People concentrate on a few outliers (like the WSOP winners past 4 years) and think the life is way way better than it really is.

I don't think someone like Bax would be miffed at all by reading my post. You should never be afraid to re-analyze and re-consider where you are in your profession, and where your profession is at.

The absolute best in the business can only make about $300K per year from online tournies ? That really opened my eyes.

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
There's a recent article on PocketFives about tournies v. cash and what a relatively raw deal tournies are.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes that was a well written, eye opening look at online poker

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

I mostly enjoyed the coding right up till the end, it was all the designing, testing, meetings and so on that got on my nerves. I could never, ever have done a 60-hour week. I quit last year and (maybe I'm running good but) I should have done it at least 3 years ago. I only play 3 or 4 MTT sessions a week and that's bringing in more money than my job ever did (again with possible running good caveat).

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
There's a recent article on PocketFives about tournies v. cash and what a relatively raw deal tournies are.


[/ QUOTE ]

Are you reffering to the article which states that anyone can make 4k a week playing 10/20 and that a really bad downswing at that level is 1k?

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There's a recent article on PocketFives about tournies v. cash and what a relatively raw deal tournies are.


[/ QUOTE ]

Are you reffering to the article which states that anyone can make 4k a week playing 10/20 and that a really bad downswing at that level is 1k?

[/ QUOTE ]

teehee

Re: is there such a thing as an online tournament poker pro ?
 

Regardless of whether the P5s article was well written or not, I think the conclusion is valid. Taking money from cash game fish is what makes it possible for most poker pros. Not tournies. Actually, that guy gave tournies a very generous ROI, 80% wasn't it ?