200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

So, villain is a 2+2'er , a good regular as far as I know. We have no history, and I don't think he knows who I am...

Flame me plz, I feel I need some punishment...

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $203.20
CO: $440.40
Button: $112.50
Hero: $392
BB: $426

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $7</font>, Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $23</font>, BB folds, CO calls.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($48, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $38</font>, CO calls.

Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($124, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets $84</font>, Hero calls.

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($292, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO is all-in $295.4</font>, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $295.4 returned to CO.

Results:
Final pot: $292

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

I probably raise to $30 PF since you're deep. I think as played river is a fold. Not sure about the best turn play.

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

I think it's close but a fold [edit: call? (see pokerstove)]....

I think you get shown AK rarely, and the rest of the time AA, KK, QQ, JJ, and TT... you're only ahead of QQ and AK and you tie w KK

worst case scenario you are 34%, throw in a few AK and you are even better, so according to his hand range, it's a call... even w/o the AK calling is about neutral EV....

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

19 games 0.005 secs 3,800 games/sec

Board: 7d 5s Tc 2c Jc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.211% 31.58% 02.63% 6 0.50 { KdKh }
Hand 1: 65.789% 63.16% 02.63% 12 0.50 { TT+ }

of course throw in 77 and 55 and you may ahve to fold, and you're deep, so he prob. calls with does

either way it's close

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

fine. I probably prefer bet fold the turn though.

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's close but a fold....

I think you get shown AK rarely, and the rest of the time AA, KK, QQ, JJ, and TT... you're only ahead of QQ and AK and you tie w KK

[/ QUOTE ]

AS never has AK here IMHO.

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's close but a fold....

I think you get shown AK rarely, and the rest of the time AA, KK, QQ, JJ, and TT... you're only ahead of QQ and AK and you tie w KK

[/ QUOTE ]

If he has AK here (which is think is rarer than a poker player getting pussy--few people float in reraised pots.), than Hero should be calling according to your range. Hero needs to be ahead 33% of the time to call.

Ahaead:
QQ - 6 ways

Behind:
AA - 6 ways
TT-JJ - 6 ways

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

looks like a fold

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

he could easily have 77/55

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

he doesn't have QQ ever. You're folding kings and you want him to be value betting queens??????

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

Even 89 is possible here. People like to chase when you're deep and generally don't float and go nuts.

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

He's raising a set on the flop like 95% of the time. He's rarely going to show up with a set here. This looks a lot like 8/9, JT, that got there, or a PP turning it's hand into a bluff, or a whiffed straight draw.

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

this is why i'm hot

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

[ QUOTE ]
this is why i'm hot

[/ QUOTE ]
The sick thing is that I think you bluffed me big time, bastard! That, or you caught a nice river with JJ, I think it's one of them...

Oh, and if you shove QQ here, I consider it a bluff...

Again: Bastard!

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

if you're ahead of his range for getting to the river you're ahead of his range for shoving the river

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

[ QUOTE ]
this is why i'm hot

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe you're capable of making such a bluff deep (no offense).

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

This is fine. Aspoker, if you bluffed this I really don't think I like it. Do you expect him to lay down hands as strong as KK/AA here?

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

i'd bet the turn here, and probably fold to a raise. If we bet the turn, I find it hard to believe that he would bomb it w/less than KK. maybe i'm way off, who knows.

the river is really tough...i assume since the stacks are so deep, he's capable of calling with a pretty wide range pre-flop. you're beat by a lot of hands here.

but here's the thing...if he views you as a TAG, he likely knows exactly what you have. so, the question is does he have you pegged as a thinking TAG that is capable of folding over pairs, or an abc TAG that's incapable of folding over pairs???

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is fine. Aspoker, if you bluffed this I really don't think I like it. Do you expect him to lay down hands as strong as KK/AA here?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is why i'm hot

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe you're capable of making such a bluff deep (no offense).

[/ QUOTE ]

none taken

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

Then nh I guess.

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is fine. Aspoker, if you bluffed this I really don't think I like it. Do you expect him to lay down hands as strong as KK/AA here?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes

[/ QUOTE ]

do you expect us to believe that you're not leveling us here since you know that most on this forum play 200NL on stars??? [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Then nh I guess.

[/ QUOTE ]

tbh

If I am hero and played the hand like he did, I fold KK here.

I'm not trying to sound cocky at all. I am just putting myself in the shoes of a thinking hero with KK here.

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is fine. Aspoker, if you bluffed this I really don't think I like it. Do you expect him to lay down hands as strong as KK/AA here?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes

[/ QUOTE ]

do you expect us to believe that you're not leveling us here since you know that most on this forum play 200NL on stars??? [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't expect you to believe anything [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

being deep i think you have to lead the turn reasonably strong, otherwise you leave yourself open to situations like this

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

ASPoker is a bluffing machine!!!

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

and if you play KK this way, i think you HAVE to find a call every now and then (40% of the time maybe?)
otherwise, you probably should avoid playing deep stacked

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

[ QUOTE ]
ASPoker is a bluffing machine!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, are you sure?

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Then nh I guess.

[/ QUOTE ]

tbh

If I am hero and played the hand like he did, I fold KK here.

I'm not trying to sound cocky at all. I am just putting myself in the shoes of a thinking hero with KK here.

[/ QUOTE ]

No I don't think you sound cocky atall. Hero's hand is a bluffcatcher, and you really won't be bluffing very often atall. nh if you think he lays this down.

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

i open shove the turn, ur ahead on the flop like always as played. turn didnt change anything, he can float with a wide range that can have plenty of outs going to the river.

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

[ QUOTE ]
i open shove the turn, ur ahead on the flop like always as played. turn didnt change anything, he can float with a wide range that can have plenty of outs going to the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thats a pretty huge open shove in comparison to the pot?

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i open shove the turn, ur ahead on the flop like always as played. turn didnt change anything, he can float with a wide range that can have plenty of outs going to the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thats a pretty huge open shove in comparison to the pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol missed stack sizes. still i think we are ahead here like 100% of the time and might consider it. I might bet like half pot on turn and river given stack sizes.

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

he runs so good, he's gotta have a set here.

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

flop looks like a float with top pair, middle pair, or OESD. I think ASPoker raises this flop a vast majority of the time with a set or anything that is ahead.

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

[ QUOTE ]
he runs so good, he's gotta have a set here.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol everyone has funny views of me

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

btw, AS, shoving the river doesnt seem very good if your looking for value. i would typically make it like $120 vs. any thinking opponent. if you were bluffing (which i doubt, no offense), then a larger bet makes sense. (though i cant really see WHAT you would be bluffing with- 86 maybe).

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

[ QUOTE ]
shoving the river doesnt seem very good if your looking for value

[/ QUOTE ]

the over-bet shove (in this case the pot sized shove) is sometimes a better value bet against some opponents, particularly those that can't fold over pairs, no?

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

yeah but any villan with a brain will realize that there is very little that he beats other than a bluff. and in my short experience/view of AS, i doubt he bluffs this river in an overbet shove.

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

[ QUOTE ]
if you're ahead of his range for getting to the river you're ahead of his range for shoving the river

[/ QUOTE ]

also if you're going to get all passive like this i agree w/ keanu that you need to call this fairly often since you opened yourself up to it.

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

brag: my wisdom has infiltrated ASPoker's good nit brain and now he is a smart taglag capable of OWNING ALL OF YOU 2P2 NITS

AHAHAHAHAHA

Re: 200NL: I hate myself (Hand against ASPoker8)
 

After thinking about this hand a lot, I think betting the turn is a must to prevent getting bluffed off our hand. Can't AS play perfectly against us? He can call PF with any PP to hit a set. Even when he misses the flop he can obviously bluff us off our hand. So basically we're never going broke unless we hit a set. So we have to play the hand in a way that prevents AS from bluffing us although he can still shove over our turn bet as a bluff. So when we stack off with just one pair we can only ever hope he's bluffing. Our hand is sort of a RIO hand IMHO.