mining the new party
 

I made a dataminer that works with the new Party software. If I released this program, I'm pretty sure it would be banned by Party Poker immediately. I am considering buying some extra computers, leaving them mining constantly, and distributing the mined hands. I am posting this to gauge the general interest in such a service.

Re: mining the new party
 

What kind of cost would you impose on people?

Also, would your program be able to give data that includes mucked hands by losing players?

A little more detail would help on how it works, but I would be willing to pay for hands of certain limits gladly.

-eric

Re: mining the new party
 

One post? To gain credability here you will have to release the program to the first 1k posters in this thread.

Re: mining the new party
 

Yeah, I don't think so.

Re: mining the new party
 

This sounds like PokerEdge's setup.

Re: mining the new party
 

i think that there is a huge demand for datamining at party; however, i am not sure you will be satisfying this demand by offering to sell dbs.

first of all, there was previously a db selling outfit run by a well known 2plus2 poster. it did not sound like it was particularly profitable and closed shop a couple of months ago. of course, this was before the new client came to fruition. in the past, people were not willing to pay enough per month to make it worthwhile. perhaps that has changed? perhaps not (you might consider posting in the mid/high forum as this is most likely firmly into your target market).

you should also seriously consider selling the program. instead of a general public release you might instead employ an email/private message/word of mouth type of approach to avoid banning (as i agree any public release will be noticed immediately by party).

i am aware of at least one and possibly two other programmers who are working on solutions to the "party problem" (i would reasonably estimate there to be at least a half dozen more out there). as soon as one of these comes to market (hopefully in a stealthy underground fashion) your db selling days are over.

personally, i would not likely buy data simply because i play lower limits and it is not worth it for me. whereas, i woould definately buy a solid/efficient datamining program without much reservation.

cheers,
sean

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: mining the new party
 

[ QUOTE ]
What kind of cost would you impose on people?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't want to abuse the nature of the forum further, and actually talk about selling something. And I haven't given it much thought.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, would your program be able to give data that includes mucked hands by losing players?

[/ QUOTE ]

no.

Re: mining the new party
 

[ QUOTE ]
This sounds like PokerEdge's setup.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kind of. Except without the proprietary software and blackmailing.

Re: mining the new party
 

Hi guys,
I made a post 2 days ago named "Party Datamine - Legal issue". I was wondering what would happen with a program that would be able to datamine at the new party software.
I agree with hhsmithey, the problem is that this program will be banned immediatly.

I'm a developper myself so i believe hhsmithey when he says he made this program, because the truth is it's pretty simple to do:
1. Capture the dealer text
2. analyse the hand
3. rewrite the hand with the format previously used by party
4. give this rewritten hand to Poker Tracker
5. 1 hand added!
Of course, the problem is that you are not able to get the hands of the player. However you're still able to track the betting tendencies ( V$PI, PFR ) and betting pattern preflop and postflop.

Well, hhsmithey, when i think of it, maybe i'll write such a software and launch my own service! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
The truth is i'm not sure it's worth it...

Re: mining the new party
 

The dealer text no longer outputs player actions. The problem is trickier than you think, but still quite doable via several approaches.

Re: mining the new party
 

yes it does, if you choose the "No player Chat" option... It's definitly doable [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: mining the new party
 

holy [censored] dude. That way is much easier than what I did. Well once these simple dealer bo miners I widespread, party might change their software, and mine will be the way to go.

[img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Re: mining the new party
 

Well i don't know if they can completely turn off this feature because it's pretty useful for any player, and i'm not talking about mining here. It's a "must have" for any site, because you want to be able to review what were the actions of your opponent earlier in a hand, specially when you are multi-tabling.

Re: mining the new party
 

they can turn it off for people who are just observing [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: mining the new party
 

yep...;(
By the way i think this is what poker stars is doing...

Re: mining the new party
 

OMG OMG OMG!!!! No player chat option rules!

Dataminer for me, time to get coding.

Re: mining the new party
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you or anyone makes a new dataminer, please PM me. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

^^

Re: mining the new party
 

[ QUOTE ]
yes it does, if you choose the "No player Chat" option... It's definitly doable [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Help me understand something though -- even using the dealer chat box, wouldn't a miner have to rely on screenscraping??
If so, then that would bring the miner into party's bannable territory.

Re: mining the new party
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yes it does, if you choose the "No player Chat" option... It's definitly doable [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Help me understand something though -- even using the dealer chat box, wouldn't a miner have to rely on screenscraping??
If so, then that would bring the miner into party's bannable territory.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it is, and that's why i think it's just not worth it, in fact. Besides, party may disable "No player chat" for observers soon.
I think we just gonna have to work on our poker skills... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: mining the new party
 

[ QUOTE ]

Yes it is, and that's why i think it's just not worth it, in fact. Besides, party may disable "No player chat" for observers soon.
I think we just gonna have to work on our poker skills... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

yeh,but this is party. Party are slow. Also they may ban it, but theres always other ways.... just gotta find 'em [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: mining the new party
 

So how many people are putting together programs to datamine party?

Me, HHsmithey, another who contacted me, who else?


Looks like there will be a top dataminer at the end of this.

Re: mining the new party
 

I would pay for data.

A weekly release would be an improvement over the monthy release used by the service I had used in the past.

Re: mining the new party
 

I would pay for weekly distribution.

Re: mining the new party
 

Add my name to the list.

Re: mining the new party
 

Do Party et al not have a clause in their terms stating anything about people taking their data and using it for commercial means? They ought to if they don't. Then they could sue Pokeredge could they?

I don't mind keeping histories of games etc but passing around data like this is just a stupid arms race that will benefit no-one in the end.

Re: mining the new party
 

[ QUOTE ]
I made a dataminer that works with the new Party software. If I released this program, I'm pretty sure it would be banned by Party Poker immediately. I am considering buying some extra computers, leaving them mining constantly, and distributing the mined hands. I am posting this to gauge the general interest in such a service.

[/ QUOTE ]

I use to sell hand history databases. It was very proffitable I think it is a very viable business. You'll meet a lot of opposition but who cares. Money is good. I'd pay 100 a month easily for good data on my limits.

Krishan

Re: mining the new party
 

N/M

Re: mining the new party
 

I call BS on this one.

Re: mining the new party
 

If you actually got this to work then there would obviously be a HUGE market for you. Make it happen!

Re: mining the new party
 

I think I'm gonna go for it. I think this system would be far better than buying a grey-market dataminer. My friend and I will do daily emails distributing mined hands specific stakes. We expect to do at least 15k hands of full table /day/stake, and 24k hands of 6max /day/stake to begin with, and much more as things get settled. These daily shots of data should be at least as large as people would be able to do themselves, and because we are the only ones who will have this miner, it will be difficult for party to do anything to stop it.

As I said, the plan is to distribute zipped text files daily, for maybe a mothly fee. Until the system is really up and running, we won't be able to do a wide selection of levels. For any who are seriously interested, please answer this poll. There have been some references to cost, and all I will say is that we will make it as cheap as is reasonably possible.

Re: mining the new party
 

No 100NL? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: mining the new party
 

you should also include $1-2 NLHE FULL/6MAX -a game akin to $5-10 LHE and about the same sd(~$150 per hr.)

btw 15K-24K is not alot of hands I was doing 70K on one workstation and 15K-40K on my other one daily for ~100K total. The prices should be realistic if you are going to offer so few hands either way I'm happy to see you doing this and like others I'm very interested- money is not a priority as long as things are done professionally.

Re: mining the new party
 

To begin with the price will be quite realistic:

$0.

Our website will be up in the next couple of days. You will be able to select which levels you want to receive data for and submit your email address. We won't start charging until we have something in place that people would be happy to pay for.

We won't offer many levels at first, just the top 3 or 4 from the poll.

Re: mining the new party
 

I would be interested in this to. Mostly 3/6 6m at the moment. PM me when you get thing up and running.

Re: mining the new party
 

[ QUOTE ]
To begin with the price will be quite realistic:

$0.

Our website will be up in the next couple of days. You will be able to select which levels you want to receive data for and submit your email address. We won't start charging until we have something in place that people would be happy to pay for.

We won't offer many levels at first, just the top 3 or 4 from the poll.

[/ QUOTE ]

sounds great! count me in

Re: mining the new party
 

HhSmithey, you do realize that there is going to be sampling bias in your poll, right? Another point I'd like to make is that mid-stakes players can pay more than small stakes players. Krishan said she'd pay $100/month for good data. I'd pay about the same. I doubt you'll be finding 3/6 6-max players offering anywhere close to that much.

(I know, it's just because I want my data. Feel free to ignore my post. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img])

Re: mining the new party
 

[ QUOTE ]
HhSmithey, you do realize that there is going to be sampling bias in your poll, right? Another point I'd like to make is that mid-stakes players can pay more than small stakes players. Krishan said she'd pay $100/month for good data. I'd pay about the same. I doubt you'll be finding 3/6 6-max players offering anywhere close to that much.

(I know, it's just because I want my data. Feel free to ignore my post. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img])

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, setting up a public website is probably the wrong way to do it. Party has already shown how heavy handed it can get when users to go a website they feel violates their T&C. (PokerEdge, PokerProphecy). Your best bet is to get a group of high limit players who like data and work it out under the table. I wouldn't be suprised if you could clear a decent chunk while staying under the radar this way.

Krishan

Re: mining the new party
 

Was there ever any evidence that Party could tell if you had visited a violater's website? To be safe at first, people may not want to visit our site while the Party client is running.

If higher limit players would PM me what stakes they would like data for, and how many hands/day they would like to see it would be helpful. I currently play 10/20 6max for a living, so you can be sure that will make the list.

Re: mining the new party
 

Yes, several people mentioned that they got the 'banned software' warning even though they only VISITED Edge or Prophecy's website. I guess Party just scanned for cookies from that site.

Anyway - i agree -- nothing good can come from a public site. I would (at least initially) do it via private email.
(BTW, i want 20/40 and 30/60 data with at least 4+ people in every hand). I will pay a decent chunk for it, but def want to give it a shot free of charge before deciding anything.