Pre-nuptial agreements, ermmm....yes surely?
 

I've been thinking about pre-nups recently (on account of the g/f waffling on about all her friends being married etc etc etc...sigh). Anyway, my understanding is that if you marry and get divorced then even earnings before you met (yet alone got married) can be split...is this correct?

It seems odd to me but people have told me it's true (I'm in the UK if that makes any difference) and I can't find much through Google. Put another way, if A and B meet aged 32 having earned exactly the same but with A having been a big spender and B a big saver so that B has $200k, say, and A has nothing (purely on account of having spent it along the way) then is that $200k potentially split if they marry and then get divorced? I know it depends on legal wranglings etc but any info would be appreciated [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Then there is the question of approaching the subject...how to do this without sounding like an arse or getting a slap?

Re: Pre-nuptial agreements, ermmm....yes surely?
 

Let me guess: YOU'RE the saver, right?

Part with some money and consult a matrimonial lawyer who will explain the entire thing to you as it works in your jurisdiction.

As to bringing it up with the g/f:

Just remember that sex is always better after you make up.

Re: Pre-nuptial agreements, ermmm....yes surely?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Let me guess: YOU'RE the saver, right?

Part with some money and consult a matrimonial lawyer who will explain the entire thing to you as it works in your jurisdiction.

As to bringing it up with the g/f:

Just remember that sex is always better after you make up.

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The example wasn't me, but I do have quite a lot saved and a house paid off etc and she doesn't have anything really. I feel bad even thinking about things like this but divorces can be messy enough as it is.

You are probably right though - I may have to talk to some lawyer.

Re: Pre-nuptial agreements, ermmm....yes surely?
 

I went thru a divorce. A pre-nup would've made it a great deal easier. A thousand slaps worth easier. If I ever get married again (shudder) I won't do it w/o one.

Re: Pre-nuptial agreements, ermmm....yes surely?
 

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Then there is the question of approaching the subject...how to do this without sounding like an arse or getting a slap?

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Just treat your gf as a responsible, mature grown up. If she's going ballistic because of a display of common sense, I'd reconsider marriage.

A prenup isn't about assuring that you don't have to pay a dime in case of a divorce, it's about protecting both parties and to lay out some fair "rules of conduct" in the case of a divorce. A good prenup doesn't state that you won't ever pay a cent, it assures that both will be treated and compensated (if necessary) in a fair manner.

Choose Strength....not Weakness...
 

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I've been thinking about pre-nups recently (on account of the g/f waffling on about all her friends being married etc etc etc...sigh).

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Trust your instincts....

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and I can't find much through Google.

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Finding info on the internet is a wonderful thing. But if you can't find it, then take a crow-bar to your wallet and buy an hour with a lawyer....

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Then there is the question of approaching the subject...how to do this without sounding like an arse or getting a slap?

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You are approaching this from a position of weakness....not strength. Most GF don't like being asked to sign a pre-nup. All her hen-friends will take her side. Your play is easy BE-A-MAN and stick to your principles. Having the principle to protect your next-egg is a GOOD THING. The best defense is a good offense. If she starts attacking you, then turn it around on her and ACCUSE HER. Say "if you truly loved me for myself then you would not feel threatened by this". Put her on the defense. If she fears she will lose you, she will SIGN a pre-nup. If she hows doubts, she can use this as an excuse to 'take a stand'. If she takes a stand then do some soul searching. If she truly feared losing you, she would crumple like a cheap suit!

My cousin signed a pre-nup with her wealthy husband (California). They have been married 10+ years and have two kids. Since they have been married for longer than 7 years and have kids the terms of the pre-nup have been satisfied and it is no longer relevant... It was no problem for her.... But she is a VERY-VERY-COOL woman.... Not knowing your woman I can't speculate how she will react...

Re: Choose Strength....not Weakness...
 

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Most GF don't like being asked to sign a pre-nup.

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All her hen-friends

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Your play is easy BE-A-MAN and stick to your principles.

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The best defense is a good offense.

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If she starts attacking you, then turn it around on her and ACCUSE HER.

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Put her on the defense.

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she can use this as an excuse to 'take a stand'.

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she would crumple like a cheap suit!

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Not knowing your woman I can't speculate how she will react...

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LOL, sounds like you already have. WHY would anyone actually want to spend the rest of their life with someone they felt they had to handle in this manner? ALL women are not completely unreasonable, ridiculous, and illogical, and if you think they are then you have sucky taste in women (or a small sample size). It sucks to know that so many men automatically approach us with this mindset.

Prenups FTW.

Re: Choose Strength....not Weakness...
 

hehe probably I'm not giving her enough credit. She is from a more traditional background than me, and I doubt anyone she knows or in her family has a pre-nup. She may be mildly offended but the more I think about it, I should just be up-front and say it's not much hassle to set one up and it can help later on should the marriage not last. I just need to attend a lesson in charm school first.

Re: Pre-nuptial agreements, ermmm....yes surely?
 

i'm hoping against hope that she is worth more than me come the divorce. There's a good chance of that.

Re: Choose Strength....not Weakness...
 

I've got an idea:

Take her out to the traditional really fancy dinner. When the champagne comes you bring out the engagement ring case, look lovingly into her eyes as you open it and say:

'Let's talk about pre-nuptual agreements.'

Re: Choose Strength....not Weakness...
 

If I do ever get married, I'm going to want a pre-nup that insulates (at least) my retirement monies.

Re: Choose Strength....not Weakness...
 

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ALL women are not completely unreasonable, ridiculous, and illogical

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http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...orly_spock.jpg

just kidding. sort of.

Re: Choose Strength....not Weakness...
 

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ALL women are not completely unreasonable, ridiculous, and illogical

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http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...orly_spock.jpg

just kidding. sort of.

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Since when does Mr. Spock have five o'clock shadow and zits badly covered up by makeup?

Re: Choose Strength....not Weakness...
 

^^^ Since HD tv came around, obv.

OP - this whole thread smacks of a bad idea coming to fruition. Unless you're a rock/movie/tv star, or possibly a lotto winner, thoughts of marriage probably shouldn't automatically lead to thoughts of a pre-nup. If your view of finances is so drastically different than your gf's, that whole realm of your lives should really be discussed and sorted out before the two of you seriously talk about marriage. What, 50% of marriages end in divorce? And some huge % of those cite financial disagreements as a major contributing cause ...

To help answer your question, though - a pre-nup can literally have any sort of rules that you want to set up. You can protect previous assets completely or in part. You can set up protection for future earnings any way that you want to. Normally several factors, like children, number of years married, etc are included. Talk to your local lawyer about specifics and any regional differences.

Re: Choose Strength....not Weakness...
 

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It sucks to know that so many men automatically approach us with this mindset.

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The mindset with which most women approach men isn't any better. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Choose Strength....not Weakness...
 

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Unless you're a rock/movie/tv star, or possibly a lotto winner, thoughts of marriage probably shouldn't automatically lead to thoughts of a pre-nup.

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You should get a pre-nup if you're a dish washer IMO. Merging your life with someone is a very big and potentially dangerous thing, and with the ridiculously poor way the legal system handles things, you simply can't have too much protection.

Actually, you shouldn't even get a government marriage at all. Why the hell would anyone willingly want to get the government involved in their love life?

Re: Choose Strength....not Weakness...
 

>any regional differences

...like their being unenforcable in the UK, for instance.

Re: Choose Strength....not Weakness...
 

The way my lawyer explained it to me for the most part, if its a good one, then it mostly protects u for ur worth "before" the marriage. So anything you "bring" into the marriage is pretty much supposed to be safe. Its what u accumulate after that u have to worry about in most situations (this is again all dependent on how iron clad the pre nup is)

Re: Pre-nuptial agreements, ermmm....yes surely?
 

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Put another way, if A and B meet aged 32 having earned exactly the same but with A having been a big spender and B a big saver so that B has $200k, say, and A has nothing (purely on account of having spent it along the way) then is that $200k potentially split if they marry and then get divorced? I know it depends on legal wranglings etc but any info would be appreciated [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]


[/ QUOTE ]In a community property state, in general, A is not entitled to any of the $200k.

Life isn't usually that simple though. E.g., the same A and B get married and buy a house. B puts down $100k and they pay for the rest of the mortgage using their joint income.

$50k is put in a mutual fund that both A and B have equal access to. Both A and B make several deposits and withdrawals each year. Some withdrawals are for joint expenses, some are for gifts to each other.

The remaining $50k is used to start a business that A runs. They're together for ten years, the business is a huge success.

A and B have "grown apart" and want a divorce. A wants half the house sale proceeds and asserts the business belongs to him/her. Now it's a lot more difficult to figure out who's money belongs to whom.

B could keep the $200k in a separate account and never allow any community funds to touch that account, but that's not exactly romantic.

Re: Pre-nuptial agreements, ermmm....yes surely?
 

I have been thinking a lot about this lately. Telling her that I WILL NOT marry her or anyone else ever without a pre-nuptial agreement might have been difficult, but I have solved it:

I am a business owner, and have a business partner. Therefore, I will LIE MY ASS OFF and say that it is included in my partnership agreement that neither of us may marry without a pre-nuptial agreement. The ostensible reason will be that my business partner and I decided as we were starting that we need to insulate ourselves against the other's potential spouse.

I honestly think this was just barely short of genius.

Re: Pre-nuptial agreements, ermmm....yes surely?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have been thinking a lot about this lately. Telling her that I WILL NOT marry her or anyone else ever without a pre-nuptial agreement might have been difficult, but I have solved it:

I am a business owner, and have a business partner. Therefore, I will LIE MY ASS OFF and say that it is included in my partnership agreement that neither of us may marry without a pre-nuptial agreement. The ostensible reason will be that my business partner and I decided as we were starting that we need to insulate ourselves against the other's potential spouse.

I honestly think this was just barely short of genius.

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This is obvious. Actually get this written into your partnership agreement though.

Re: Pre-nuptial agreements, ermmm....yes surely?
 

There was one interesting court case in Arizona: W and H, married for years, file for divorce. On August 1, they go to court and state their marriage is irretrievably broken. On August 3, H buys a lottery ticket and wins over $1M. On August 8, the judgment is finalized and entered. Much litigation later, the court rules that both W and H get half the lottery proceeds because they were still married when the ticket was purchased.

Re: Pre-nuptial agreements, ermmm....yes surely?
 

spend more time figuring out if you are truly compatible than worrying about a prenup. Realize that things will be hard and you need to work through them rather than taking the easy out.

with that said, how funds will be distributed in a divorce depends on where you live - whether it is a community property state or not (as gusmahler said).

Re: Pre-nuptial agreements, ermmm....yes surely?
 

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I have been thinking a lot about this lately. Telling her that I WILL NOT marry her or anyone else ever without a pre-nuptial agreement might have been difficult, but I have solved it:

I am a business owner, and have a business partner. Therefore, I will LIE MY ASS OFF and say that it is included in my partnership agreement that neither of us may marry without a pre-nuptial agreement. The ostensible reason will be that my business partner and I decided as we were starting that we need to insulate ourselves against the other's potential spouse.

I honestly think this was just barely short of genius.

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This is obvious. Actually get this written into your partnership agreement though.

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These aspects are covered in my partnership agreement, but they have nothing whatsoever to do with anyone having a prenuptial agreement. That part is a LIE.

Re: Pre-nuptial agreements, ermmm....yes surely?
 

This thread needs to be moved to the High Stakes forum.

http://www.midsummerseve.com/images/photos/lr.jpg

Re: Pre-nuptial agreements, ermmm....yes surely?
 

Yes, surely. Split all married proceeds 50/50 but why should she get your stuff from when you were slamming some hog like 3 girls and 5 years ago?

Of course, if she's loaded then strenuously object.