bet the rock on the river with one pair?
 

Live 8-16.

EP is an ancient old man who fits the stereotype for the most part. He's not a complete rock, but he's not far off.

EP2 is sorta laggy, crazy type who playing pretty crazy tonight. He views me as very tight though.

I don't have much of a read on BB, but all signs point to suck.

PF Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="red">EP raises</font>, EP2 calls, folds to hero, <font color="red">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, EP calls, EP2 calls.

Flop 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img](4 players, 12 SB)
BB checks, EP checks, EP2 checks, <font color="red">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, EP calls, EP2 folds.

Turn J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img](3 players, 7.5 BB)
BB checks, EP checks, <font color="red">hero bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="red">EP raises</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

River 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img](3 players, 13.5 BB)
BB checks, EP checks, Hero...?

Re: bet the rock on the river with one pair?
 

I wouldn't bet this river, if EP is as you say he is probably scared of the flush or something and being weak when not betting the river with a hand better than yours, you are probably still behind. He checkraised the field out of position on the turn, which is quite a strong move.

Re: bet the rock on the river with one pair?
 

Old man has a 7 like 100% of the time if your description is right.

Re: bet the rock on the river with one pair?
 

if EP is a rockish type, what EP raising hand includes a 7? looks like JJ on the turn. his play is strong, which is why i'm curious why you didn't fold the turn. but now that it's checked to you on the river, i don't mind a bet.

Re: bet the rock on the river with one pair?
 

[ QUOTE ]
if EP is a rockish type, what EP raising hand includes a 7? looks like JJ on the turn. his play is strong, which is why i'm curious why you didn't fold the turn. but now that it's checked to you on the river, i don't mind a bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was my thinking as well, and I very nearly did fold the turn, but my read on this guy isn't rock solid. Also, this type of player tends to play tight, but not read hands very well - if a thinking player had check-raised the field on this turn, I know one pair is no good, but the "old man rock" type tends to play really tight but then overplay their good hands, so I thought there was an outside chance that he'd play the other AA or something like KK this way.

Which I suppose means that I have to bet this river. The only hand that I'm losing to that would chicken out on the river is 9T, and I just don't see this guy raising that from EP.

Anyways, results: <font color="white">he shows KK and MHIG. d'oh!</font>

Re: bet the rock on the river with one pair?
 

So, did u bet the river?

Re: bet the rock on the river with one pair?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So, did u bet the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

No I chickened out [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: bet the rock on the river with one pair?
 

I would have folded the turn but once you got to the river it looks like he is going to have KK or the other AA almost every time.

Re: bet the rock on the river with one pair?
 

Fold the turn, his c/r traps 2 people so he's not bluffing. He's got a 7 way too often

Re: bet the rock on the river with one pair?
 

Folding turn is close, but I don't mind a call because QQ-KK are definite possibilities. River, I don't bet because a 7 chickens out a lot there...way too often to make it a +ev bet.

Re: bet the rock on the river with one pair?
 

How in the world is this old guy supposed to have a 7 here?

Re: bet the rock on the river with one pair?
 

[ QUOTE ]
How in the world is this old guy supposed to have a 7 here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: bet the rock on the river with one pair?
 

[ QUOTE ]
How in the world is this old guy supposed to have a 7 here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, maybe I spoke too soon when I put him on a 7. He could have a couple of hands but I'd be very surprised if hero is good here and drawing to more than 2 outs

Re: bet the rock on the river with one pair?
 

If he's a rock type player, you can read all his lines one by one and they mean exactly what they are supposed to mean.

Preflop = i have a very good hand and i don't mind raising with. So there is no 7 in this hand for sure!!!

Flop = i don't want to fold cause i still have a good hand but i want to see the other limper if they have a 7.

Turn = you don't have a 7 and the BB doesn't either cause no check-raise, so my hand is good (here you're dead against JJ and JJ only, IMO there is no hands he can have except this one that you are behind)

river = the flush came an i don't beat a flush, so he doesn't have JJ, what can he have? AA, KK, QQ so you have to know that your hand is good against the rock. And because the flush was runner-runner, don't think the BB has it so for me, it's a clear bet here on the river.

my 2¢

Re: bet the rock on the river with one pair?
 

If by slim chance your hand is good against the EP raiser on the turn... which I think it is unless he has exactly J-J... why are you just calling the turn here? I can think of no combos where if your "rock" read are correct, that the EP could have a 7. You need to improve your chances that your hand is best? I think the raise gets the BB out with his pair st8 draw type hands.

I think you need to raise the turn and see what happens...

Betting the river here is dangerous, but I would most likely bet the river for value here. The BB has done nothing to indicate that he has a hand and now the EP has given up seemingly indicating that you have emanated enough strength via calling to indicate he is beat.

In conclusion: I think you need to raise turn, and bet the end for value.