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-   -   Tilter's Annonymous. All tilters welcome. (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=402157)

Guruman 05-13-2007 02:56 PM

Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
So I’ve suffered some remarkably demoralizing downswings over the last few months. Of course, you can’t suffer downswings if you catch a big run of great hands and I’ve caught the opposite of that. Lots of expensive second best hands, lots of river cards that make my hands but make the other guy’s hand a little better. Lots of good starting hands in position that whiff on the flop in big pots and get bet into in protected pot situations, etc. Those things cause downswings and I’m cool with that. I’m also freakin good at it, but whatever.

These downswings that I’m experiencing are compounded by various forms of tilt and generally poor decision-making. I’m going to attempt to list the multitudinous ways that I abuse my br, the various routines I have in place to attempt to mitigate these tilts, and then humbly ask for advice in resolving these insidious termites in my game. I’ll also try to list leaks that I believe that I have, and to keep them separate from the tilts.

I gotta say, I kinda feel like an alcoholic at an AA meeting asking for Jesus here, but well, my game has to be sick right now and it probably needs a little Jesus. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

So…

Hi, my name is René and I’m a tilter. [I’ll assume the “hi René” response [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]]

I guess I first started tilting when I realized that if I bet with nothing sometimes people would fold. Then it got worse when I found out that if I had been doing that for a while and ran into a hand then people would think I still had nothing and give me all kinds of action. It went downhill from there though, because when my timing was off I’d start winning small pots and losing big ones.

I realized I had a problem, so I found Tommy Angelo and did some research on what tilt is and what I can do about it. What Tommy taught me was that I’ll always be a tilter, but if I can manage to have an A game that can beat the other guy and if I stay closer to my A game for longer periods of time than the other guy, then I”ll win his money.

Tommy also taught me that there are many many forms of tilt because there are many many aspects of every session and every hand, so consequently there are many different opportunities to do things that I know better than to do.

Tilt is a crazy thing sometimes because it really doesn’t feel like tilt when you’re in the throes of it.

It feels like rational behavior.

It feels like normal logical thinking poker.

Its not though, and when you step back to review sessions and action and results the tilt stares back at you. It’s marked into your sessions and roles like a scar. The remains of a self-inflicted wound burned into the flesh of your bankroll.

And there it is: the vivid image of you clawing and tearing at your own roll. Ripping into it with eyes shut and mouth open. Justifying, complaining, thrashing, crashing, making excuses, and crushing your eyelids even further shut.

I’ve done that.

I’d like to stop.

Here are the specific things that I do to my poor br on a far too frequent basis:

1) Playing in games that are too tough.

-I suffer from a particularly onerous catch 22 when it comes to game and seat selection as they relate to mid-hand actions: I have to feel like I can pull off an appropriate bluff or make an appropriate laydown in order to feel like I’ve got enough of an edge to sit in a game. If I can’t make good postflop moves then I can’t sit, but if I can’t sit I can’t figure out if I can play well vs the opposition postflop. I’ve learned that preflop is a poor indicator of whether or not I can beat someone. There are two sides to winning poker: One side is to be better at guessing your opponent’s range of hands and then manipulating the action based on the read. The other side is to find games with brain-dead gambooooolers and just valuebet. When there are no maniac gamboolers, I’m forced to go the other way if I want to play, and too often I’ll look up and find myself in a game that I’ll have to play very very well in if I want to walk with a [theoretical] profit.

2) Watching my $$ at the table.

- Downswings of the magnitude that I’ve been experiencing do funny things to one’s expectation of results. During my first crushing downswing I attempted to use a tilt-blocker type coverup on my br when I bought in to each table. A problem started arising though, in that I’d keep accidentally getting all in with good hands because I had already taken my usual run of river suckouts, expensive secondbest hands, and postflop whiffs. I started buying in for double and the problem mitigated somewhat. I’d still be crushed when I’d pull the tiltblocker off and count up the 40bb or so loss at each table. What I was finding was that I was being too loose and too aggro when I didn’t know about the money. So I took it off and tightend back up, but now I watch my roll too closely again.

3) Demolition tilt

- This is usually a matter of losing a lot early in a session and just saying “F it I’m gonna wait for a big hand and get all in” I lose a lot these days and so I lose early a lot and the demo tilt comes along to clean things the rest of the way out.

4) Ego

- Generally the feeling that I have a distinct edge on someone. I’m sure I lose all kinds of money this way.

5) Pushing back when they’ve already dug in.

- I’ve got poor showdown radar sometimes, and I’ll tend to push back in spots where an opponent is already committed to turning his cards up at the end. This is mostly a leak and a deficiency in my A game, but it also registers as tilt in spots where I should know better.

6) Compounded tilt

- I’d call this generally the non-recognition of tilt as the tilt is occurring. I’ll push do something dumb and think, “ah, well he had that hand that time but he’ll tend not to in that spot so I’m ok” Then I’ll keep playing as though I didn’t do something stupid. This undoubtedly leads to further stupidity

7) Weaktight tilt

- I raise a lot pf, which has the eventual consequence of widening my opposition’s hand ranges. Sometimes I end up folding to further action when I could show down.

8) Loose passive tilt

- Sometimes I show down when I should be pushing back or folding. this tends to be out of confusion, and while this one is a leak in my A game, it can also register as tilt in spots where I know better.

9) Acting too fast tilt.

- this one should be much higher on the list because I know its one of the most frequent. Far far too often I’ll think to myself “checkraise turn, lead river” and then do that without looking at the damn river card. I’ll find myself in a situation where I have to call a river raise in a spot where I should have checked to price myself down cheaper. I almost never really make the mistake of checking too fast, its usually betting or raising too fast. I do this far far too much.

10) Ignoring pf tilt.

- this one’s like dieting or exercise to me. When we ignore the pf action and just go by the board, initiative, and postflop action we’re leaving out a very big part of the hand range equation. Its not hard to look at pf, but for some reason it can be a chore in spots, and when I don’t think about it but I should I’m tilting and losing money. I do this some, but not as much as I used to.

11) Ignoring protected pot tilt

- when a pot is multiway the actions have to be much more straightforward and the resulting actions have to take that into account. When I don’t but I know I should then I’m tilting and am likely to be doing something stupid.

12) Confusion tilt.

- If I don’t know where I’m at with a player or how I think I can beat him but I’m still stubbornly sitting there I’m tilting and losing money. This is similar to the first tilt I mentioned, which is sitting in games that are too tough, but the distinction is that I don’t know if this is a too tough spot or not. What I do know is that I don’t know what the hell I’m trying to accomplish, so I should sit back and re-evaluate before continuing any stupidity.

13) laziness tilt

- Lots of this in lots of spots. table selection, session review, thinking about pf, thinking about hand ranges, thinking away from the table, thinking while at the table, note taking, watching after folding, etc. I know better so therefore I should do better. These are all aspects of my A game, and when I fail to exercise them then I’m tilting and leaving money on the table.

14) distracted tilt

- barking dog, nagging wife, 2+2, hunger, thirst, etc. Outside of the dog I don’t suffer from this one much, but the rest of it can show up in spots if I don’t pay attention to those things before sitting down.

---------
k, I’m sure there’s more but that’s all I can come up with off the top of my head.

For the record, here are some common tilts that I think I do a good job of avoiding:

-surfing the interwebs tilt
-too many tables tilt
-tv tilt
-drunken tilt
-deadline tilt
-long session tilt

---------
so now I need your help, your support, and your suggestions. These tilts have combined with ugly cards and a sub-optimal A game to devastate my roll. When I play poker I like to win, and I haven’t won in a while. These are reasons why and I need some Jesus.

Thanks!

Guruman 05-13-2007 03:02 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
Didnt list my anti-tilt routines:

I always play exactly two tables
I never have the tv on
I try to always be rested and fed.
I listen to chilled out music even though I like rock and blues. (tried going without music but found myself getting distracted too quickly)
I don't play super long sessions
I don't do drugs
I don't play drunk, though I will have a beer.

Bona 05-13-2007 03:10 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
Try taking your significant knowledge and experience to a new place (temporarily) that will capture your interest and help you stay focused during the session. You might notice more in that mental place. I don't know what you normally play but if it is limit, play and study NL at lower stakes or SnG's etc.

I went to 6 max and learned quite a bit over 20k hands or so while I was figuring things out. Then had a bad downswing that would not have been as bad if I had played to my potential.

So I played full ring for a while and sort of figured out what was what with my six max game. (Not saying I have the answers just saying....) Not scientific but it worked that way for me and my six max results are recently improved.

celiboy 05-13-2007 03:15 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
Just curious, but how many BB has the downswing been? I think you used to play 3/6 so it must be pretty long....

bennyhana 05-13-2007 03:17 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
Hi I'm Ben and I'm a tilter.

This is a good one:

[ QUOTE ]
4) Ego

- Generally the feeling that I have a distinct edge on someone. I’m sure I lose all kinds of money this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I also get a thing I refer to as Positive Tilt. I like to campare it to my golf game. The first few golf outings in the year, I really feel like I play good. I'm hitting the ball well, scoring OK, and not trying too many fancy things. Then I think, "If I do this, I might be able to hit this shot". Then I start to stray from the basics, and my score starts to suffer. The same thing happens to me at the poker tables. I am playing really well, not doing anything stupid, then I try an advanced play and it works. Hmmm. Maybe I should try some more of that and make this more fun. I start finding outs that just aren't there, or start factoring in implied odds that just don't exist. Then my winrate starts to suffer. Then I get so pissed and end my session down 25bb or something and wonder why I play this game.


.02

Riku 05-13-2007 03:21 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
[ QUOTE ]

9) Acting too fast tilt.

- this one should be much higher on the list because I know its one of the most frequent. Far far too often I’ll think to myself “checkraise turn, lead river” and then do that without looking at the damn river card. I’ll find myself in a situation where I have to call a river raise in a spot where I should have checked to price myself down cheaper. I almost never really make the mistake of checking too fast, its usually betting or raising too fast. I do this far far too much.

[/ QUOTE ]

I´ve tried to establish a routine to always look at the card and figure out whether it changed something or not. I feel that after being consistant with it, it´ll become automatic. Just like in sports, for example. You do things automatically after repeating them tens of thousands of time. But at first, you need to be very consistant with them.

What if you can´t get it automatic even after being consistant ? How can you check something every time if it´s not automatic ? Personally i use a mantra. I have certain questions that i repeat in my mind and answer them. A river falls, i ask, did that river change something, check if it did, and proceed accordingly.

ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S 05-13-2007 03:23 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
my only emotions are hungry and sleepy

bravos1 05-13-2007 04:05 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
Guru, nice post.. and I think we call all relate.

Some of these don't really seem like tile, but more of a lack of focus or possible leaks. 10-12 fall into this category.

Ego is a big one for me and tends to loosen me up PF and on the flop when I start losing and tilting. I feel that I can always outplay the money that just sucked out 3 hands in a row and start to make poor pre-flop and flop peeling decisions.

inferno 05-13-2007 05:07 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
I was prolly the worst tilter of you all. I healed mostly by playing short peroids of time(like playing sessions of max 1hour) that helped me allot. NPA and TA helped also.

guru you can do iiiiiiiit! also plz beat jaxup [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

bung 05-13-2007 05:29 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
NPA - noted poker authority?

TA -??

And how did these sources help you tilt less inferno?

bravos1 05-13-2007 06:15 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
[ QUOTE ]
NPA - noted poker authority?

TA -??

And how did these sources help you tilt less inferno?

[/ QUOTE ]

NPA - Noted Poker Authority = Ed Miller
TA = Tommy Angelo

karlwig 05-13-2007 06:56 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
Sign me in.

bbbushu 05-13-2007 07:45 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
DEMOLITION TILTAR

that_guy_33 05-13-2007 08:50 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
I would just suggest you play at a level where if you go on a downswing, you don't feel like killing yourself. If the ammount of money involved is affecting you emotionally, I would suggest deopping down a level. Yeah this might require you to check your ego at the door, but its a good way to build a bankroll to the point where the next level is more comfortable.

When I first started playing poker a few years ago, I was a tilter for sure. This was because I played at stakes above my bankroll, and basically 'had to win' to keep my bankroll intact and to keep my sanity. This obviously was a bad idea. I also was a [censored] poker player when I started and any 'profit' I made could not compare to the swings I was playing with.

Everyone has their own 'zone' that they get into playing poker. I guess I am a bit weird in this way in that I am usually not completely focussed on the game. The tv is often on, or maybe some music, or talking to a friend. I guess I am most relaxed if my mind is somewhere away from what my bankroll is. Of course the 1/2 games I play are not very difficult so alot of attention is not required to make a profit. I am sure alot of people who posted in this thread are playing much tougher games.

Anyway, good luck, we have all been there.

nomadtla 05-13-2007 09:19 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
Great post Guru. I think my worst is lazyness tilt. I could be so much better if I put the time I intended to, into my game, and put in the effort at the tables with reads, notes, etc....

DavidC 05-13-2007 11:50 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
We play in games with a pretty high rake, and thus, reciproci... whatever that tommy term is... we need to have more of it (or less, depending on whether more is better or worse... I'm guessing less.)

DavidC 05-13-2007 11:52 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
Something that confuses me about reciprocity.

When you bust AA vs KK for an extra like 1SB than the other guy would have busted you for, since his AA = 6 hands and your KK = 3 hands (set on flop say), how much do you earn over time?

Anyways, it comes back to miller's point about someone folding royal flushes but still being a winning player... I don't quite know the math of it, though, so explanations are appreciated.

DavidC 05-13-2007 11:57 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
this is a pretty awesome link though, I haven't seen tommy's stuff from 2006 I think.

DavidC 05-14-2007 12:15 AM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
lol I think I'm losing the war on study reciprocity. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Guruman 05-14-2007 12:17 AM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
Dave, I think the post hand reciprocality analysis shouldn't take hand frequencies into account because you're not analyzing your opponent's range, you're looking at how he played his specific hand.

Tommy's stuff is great and I'm super excited that he's in the process of writing a book. I feel like I should have a plaque made that says Before anything flows, there must be a difference. Between different elevations, water flows. Between different pressures, air flows. Between different poker players, money flows. and just post it above my poker playing monitor.

I've also got some ideas on how to specifically deal with the multitudes of issues I have with my game. The technical stuff I can work out, it's the relentless, insidious, hidden, persistent, tilting that I have to get a grip on.

I think the analogy probably fits more to a bulemic than to an alcoholic in that people with body dysmorphic disorders tend to injure and disfigure themselves during the courses of their normal routines and it doesn't register as a bad thing during the action. That's how I see my tilt.

Also to the forum, please don't misunderstand this as a slight against people that are truly suffering from a crippling disease. I'm not trying to make the comparison, but I am going to try to seek resolution from tilt through the methodologies that these people would use to correct their own self-inflicted wounds.

DavidC 05-14-2007 12:21 AM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
I'll have to come back to the thread as I'm about to pass out, but I didn't mean to sound like a prick in my first response.

Take care, dude.
--Dave.

DavidC 05-14-2007 12:23 AM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Dave, I think the post hand reciprocality analysis shouldn't take hand frequencies into account because you're not analyzing your opponent's range, you're looking at how he played his specific hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, this is kinda funny.

I was thinking about long term reciprocity (bb/100) and you're describing short-term reciprocity (bb/this hand).

I think that it's helpful to know the short-term (in order to figure out long term), but long term is where my focus is, and that's why I was asking about how to adjust reciprocity for frequencies.

Now, I wasn't talking about my hand vs his range. I was talking about my hand vs his hand.

i.e. K3345

his aa, my kk, I win 1SB more than he would win if we reversed and he will get dealt aa more often than I get dealt kk...

Do I win 1sb on the hand, or a little more, or a little less? I don't know.

Now, he might get AK in that spot sometimes too, but it doesn't matter, because I'll do a separate reciprocal analysis for that hand when it occurs, or maybe I'll do a weighted reciprocal analysis of all his hands based on their frequency and my hands and their frequencies, etc etc etc. Helluva matrix so I don't really do that, but ... I'm kinda interested in doing it just once so I can figure out the math of poker deeply or whatever.

the other thing that I'm kinda concerned about is how rake works into reciprocal analysis.

Luckily our edges are pretty big, but as edges become smaller between players (as online is becoming) rake might play a pretty big factor in reciprocal analysis (as we get more and more similar to eachother).

We sorta solve that by just keeping track of bb/100 profit and bb/100 rake over large samples and relooking at those stats every few years as the games change, but ... well... again, for completeness, it'd be nice to understand it once, even if i forget it in like a year or something.

--Dave.

edit: I realize I've taken a tilt post and hijacked it into a poker post, which is why I'll have to come back to the thread tomorrow and see the whole tilt side of hte post, again, sorry bro.

BigBadBabar 05-14-2007 12:34 AM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
dave! no hijack hijinks pls [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

inferno 05-14-2007 03:44 AM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
[ QUOTE ]
NPA - noted poker authority?

TA -??

And how did these sources help you tilt less inferno?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly by thinking about the one liners they give which stick to my head. Read allot of psychology posts on NPA. I also have to give some credit to Joe Tall who noted you should quit when you lost focus.

Peter Harris 05-14-2007 04:58 AM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
Hello, I'm Pete and I am a tilter.

I do a few of these, but i'll comment on all of yours, matey.


[ QUOTE ]
1) Playing in games that are too tough.

[/ QUOTE ]

you've always talked about playing in tough games so when you get to 30/60 you're able to beat it. I always looks for the softest game at whatever limit i play in. I think crushing soft games for a big winrate and moving up slower is better than locking horns with the best players at each limit for experience.

[ QUOTE ]
2) Watching my $$ at the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh, I do this too. It's lame. It's capital, not money, and you invest it hoping for a return. you can't always secure a return. Buy in for 100BB+ if you're going to use tiltblocker as you don't want to flop the stone cold nuts and find you have 3BB back.

[ QUOTE ]
3) Demolition tilt

[/ QUOTE ]

this is totally stupid and avoidable.

[ QUOTE ]
4) Ego

[/ QUOTE ]

also not good. Against an uberfish who stacks me as a dog I'll just think "man, bad move, hope you stick around". Confidence is not Ego. the latter is a much bigger problem.

[ QUOTE ]
5) Pushing back when they’ve already dug in.

[/ QUOTE ]

You wrote about checking lines, right? so you should be adept at spotting the likeliest showdown lines. Keep a sharper eye out. Some look like c/c c/c (river likely c/c), some look like c/c c/r (river will SD) some like b/c c/c (river c/c likely) etc.

[ QUOTE ]
6) Compounded tilt

[/ QUOTE ]

we are all blessed with 20/20 vision after the fact. After every hand if i think i've done something wrong i tell myself then and there, then review the hand in PT later to see. If i'm still not sure, i go to 2+2.

[ QUOTE ]
7) Weaktight tilt

[/ QUOTE ]

this isn't such a problem unless you're making rockstar folds. which you shouldnt be.

[ QUOTE ]
8) Loose passive tilt

[/ QUOTE ]

bet this happens most after a series of cruel beats. I think i curl up sometimes and do this one.

[ QUOTE ]
10) Ignoring pf tilt.

[/ QUOTE ]

PF is the most obv way of getting an early range - do they limp big pairs? when they 3b what do they SD? you can't miss it out.

[ QUOTE ]
11) Ignoring protected pot tilt

[/ QUOTE ]

Just assume if its 3handed+ you'll have to play ABC TAGpoker to take the pot.

[ QUOTE ]
12) Confusion tilt.

[/ QUOTE ]

take longer to think, or find more beatable players. there's no shame in the latter.

[ QUOTE ]
13) laziness tilt

[/ QUOTE ]

everyone (well probably) could do more to improve. We do have other committments.

[ QUOTE ]
14) distracted tilt

[/ QUOTE ]

give buttercup a bone or chewy toy [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

-surfing the interwebs tilt
is bad, i dont do it

-too many tables tilt
i am at 2-3 now, maybe 4.

-tv tilt
if playing donkaments, i fire up a little TV

-drunken tilt
never played drunk

-deadline tilt
DON'T HAVE DEADLINES WOOOOOOT

-long session tilt
after about 4hrs i'm usually toast. Will break after 1-2hrs usually.



Keep it up Guru, but my best advice remains: find soft games and dine on fishies.

Tommy Angelo 05-14-2007 10:29 AM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
Bless me oh father for I have sinned. It has been -- What's that? I'm in the wrong place? My people are outside in the alley behind the dumpster? Okay, I'll go find them.

Hi, my name is Tommy, and I'm a tilter.

DavidC 05-14-2007 12:30 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
Firstly awesome post.

It sounds like you know what to do, so basically just do more of that, with an obvious exception: no beer, not even one, when you're playing.

That confusion tilt that you're talking about... my best experience with that is when I'm a little frustrated and I don't know where I'm at, so my solution is to continue to play and stackoff like 6bb (rationally, mind you, not putting like 6 bets in with A8 ui) rather than reload at the table. If I'm not comfortable enough to reload, I really shouldn't be there.

A lot of pretty damn decent players are having a lot of trouble these days with having long downswings. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

DavidC 05-14-2007 12:32 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I was prolly the worst tilter of you all. I healed mostly by playing short peroids of time(like playing sessions of max 1hour) that helped me allot. NPA and TA helped also.

guru you can do iiiiiiiit! also plz beat jaxup [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

You guys both in the same city or something?

BigBadBabar 05-14-2007 01:05 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
my name is bigbadbabar (well not really), and i have a problem. in spite of logging 400k hands online, or maybe not in spite of, beats bother me more now than at the beginning, and i tilt more easily. i tilt in a variety of ways, most of which guruman covered quite eloquently. let it be known that i am on the road to recovery and welcome any interventions that this Esteemed Community seems fit to offer or make.

yours in sherbert shipping,
BBB

bravos1 05-14-2007 01:07 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
it should be at least a little concerning that you tilt easier now than before. After the time you have invested, you should know that suckouts happen and poker is what it is.

Riku 05-14-2007 01:53 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
For those of you who have been clean from tilting, this awesome keyring is now available. Just print it, glue it on a cardboard, attach it to your key with a string.
http://www.eco-artware.com/catalog/images/KM2.jpg

Wetdog 05-14-2007 02:06 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
Really good post, Guru. It's been a while since I read Tommy. I guess I will again some day (procrastination tilt).

I think that I get over bad beat tilt by reminding myself that I've given a few beats to others myself.

My biggest tilt leaks are due to impairment, Sleepy Tilt and Beer Tilt. I've mostly been playing 1 and 2 table donkaments for the past year. I'll play until after midnight most nights usually with a bottle of Blue Moon always at the ready. Couple this with having played in a bar tournament earlier and there's quite a bit of beer coursing through the brain box. Decisions that should take some analysis (what's this guy's range here?; hmmm, coordinated board; wait, that's a scary card) are supplanted with gut responses (oh about two-thirds of the pot should work). It's also happened more than once that I fall asleep in my chair during a MTT on a weekend night. How I make the money in those I attribute to some fundamentals that I learned right here in the micros (thanks guys).

During the latter part of last year and early part of this I went on a horrible downswing. Had I not won a $4/180 man tourney in the middle and end of the skid, I would be busto. My Sharkscope looked like a series of really ugly Ns. In the middle of this skid I moved down in buyin and began questioning my play. I found way too many loose (middle offsuit connectors limped in EP & folded to a raise, playing any two sooted in LP, really stupid bluffs that had no logic to be able to sell to the villain) plays that I had gotten away with previously that started biting me in the ass. I guess that was mostly impatience due to some sense of urgency to act in a donkament that I've since gotten over.

It's funny that I've done pretty well in tournaments yet I suck in ring games. I'm sure that there is an explanation for that here somewhere but I'm too lazy to find it (lazy tilt).

Befolder 05-14-2007 03:52 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
Very nice post Guru.

Hello, I'm Ryan...and I'm a tilter.

I find that when I'm tilting that I cbet pretty much every time regardless of the board that flops. Naturally, I'm missing every flop, which also helps.
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Shillx 05-14-2007 03:57 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
I lost about 80 BB playing 50/100 the other night while blasted out of my mind. Ugh. I think I might have been cheated though. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] So yeah I tilt. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

inferno 05-14-2007 04:21 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Bless me oh father for I have sinned. It has been -- What's that? I'm in the wrong place? My people are outside in the alley behind the dumpster? Okay, I'll go find them.

Hi, my name is Tommy, and I'm a tilter.

[/ QUOTE ]

<3 TA

DavidC 05-14-2007 06:30 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
[ QUOTE ]
it should be at least a little concerning that you tilt easier now than before. After the time you have invested, you should know that suckouts happen and poker is what it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's possible that players (including myself) have certain var/ev thresholds before they tilt (long term).

i.e. it's easier to handle a 200bb downswing if you're running at 3/100 over 30k hands than it would be running 1.5/100 over the same number of hands, etc.

DavidC 05-14-2007 06:35 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
Brad, this is the second time I've heard about drunken high stakes from you. Jesus man... if this wasn't the same incident that you're talking about you've got to stop that. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Mano 05-14-2007 06:37 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Bless me oh father for I have sinned. It has been -- What's that? I'm in the wrong place? My people are outside in the alley behind the dumpster? Okay, I'll go find them.

Hi, my name is Tommy, and I'm a tilter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Tommy,
I saw on your website that you are working on a book. Any info you can give us about it (contents, publish dates, publisher, etc.)? Thanks for any info, and GL.

Guruman 05-14-2007 09:28 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
So we all tilt.

My tilt is particularly damaging because it just does not feel at all like tilt. It feels like solid poker. It's not, but it sure feels exactly like solid poker feels.

Essentially I feel like my tilt is the poker anagram of a self-destructive and compulsive disorder. I don't believe that it is as bad as an actual compulsive disorder, but because I don't really feel it while it's going on sometimes I worry that it has the potential to develop into something of that level. If tilt takes over my game then I'll have reverted from a poker player to a gambler, and frankly I don't like that so much.

I noted before that I think body dysmorphic disorders can serve as a serviceable analogy, especially when it comes to seeking methodologies for eliminating the tilt. While looking into it I stumbled across the practice of cognitive behavioral therapy, which is in practice as a treatment for BDDs as well as other types of addicts and compulsives.

The whole premise is that our thoughts create emotions that influence our actions. If we reframe our impressions of things as they occur then our thoughts will create different (and hopefully better) emotions that will in turn cause better actions and reactions.

As I look deeper into it though, it seems like this can only address some of the tilt that I run across (mostly demolition tilt, ego tilt, and any other emotionally based tilt), and the types of tilt that it does address I am capable of recognizing while in the act.

So it may not be worth the effort to look into the practice of this stuff (though it could be cool because it appears to be legit, clinically proven, and computerized) for the majority of what I personally face.

I think I need some kind of re-focusing technique. Some kind of something that can slow me down and sharpen me up. Also a little honesty with myself about skillz at the table would be good. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Guruman 05-14-2007 09:31 PM

Re: Tilter\'s Annonymous. All tilters welcome.
 
Another thing I'm going to try to do is to prioritize my tilt.

Its clear that some kinds of tilt are more damaging than others because they occur more frequently or in more damaging situations.

Once I prioritize my tilt, I'm going to have to start working on the list one at a time from top to bottom. I may need to develop a specific technique for each different type.

I realize that I can't cure it all at once.

I realize that I'll never 'cure' any of it - only marginalize it's influences.

I realize that it will probably suck at first.

I hope that it will put my game in a place that I can consistently win money with it.


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