7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

Apparently 7 people have been arrested in connection with helping online gambling sites conduct transactions with US credit cards.

Anyone know if this affects the current processors the online sites use? If this thread needs to be moved, mods feel free to do so.

Link to story

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

Hard to read that article. They seem to imply that these were the people that were handling western union transfers, but also imply that they were defrauding credit card companies somehow? I don't really get it.

One thing I do get is that they're each facing up to 72 years in prison for doing nothing besides helping US citizens deposit their money to gambling sites they wanted to deposit their money to. What's happened to this country?

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

Pretty damn bad news.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

Read to me as though they were responsible for processing credit card transactions for/through gambling sites but masking the purchase as something else.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

Is this how UB and Absolute were able to process standard-issue cc's?

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

I hate to be an alarmist but this could possibly push a poker site teetering one way or the other to finally pull the plug on the US.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

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I hate to be an alarmist but this could possibly push a poker site teetering one way or the other to finally pull the plug on the US.

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The defendants are charged with Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act conspiracy, bank fraud, violations of the wire-wager act, and money laundering. The indictment seeks the forfeiture of $150 million, as well as real estate and vehicles.


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What we need to be asking:

Are these arrests in any way related to poker? Do any of the charges stem from transfer of $ to poker sites?

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

It is illegal to do that, I believe, no matter if it's a gambling site or a toy store or whatever. For instance, if I sold books but didn't have a cc merchant account but you had one, it would not be legal for you to process cc transactions for me, I think.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

i dunno if this is related, but all of a sudden i cant use my cc's to deposit onto wpex. which ive used 3 or 4 times in the past, and as recently as a month ago.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

The mention of BetUS as one of the companies under indictment leads me to think it's just continued action on that snafu, rather than something new.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

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What we need to be asking:

Are these arrests in any way related to poker? Do any of the charges stem from transfer of $ to poker sites?

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What do you think?

My last two deposits at a certain poker site were listed in my cc statement as a "clothing store" and a "furniture" store.

One of the companies mentioned btw, was BetUS, which uses the cake network as their poker platform.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

I'm sure that was illegal even before the anti-gambling law was passed.

What I would like to know from PS lawyers and FTP lawyers is how do I legally withdraw and deposit funds?

F*cktards aren't answering these questions very well so they are going to lose a lot of business.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

I just deposte with a debit card with xxx poker site and they later called to verify it and then name poppped up (name deleted by Jim Kuhn)

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

Maybe you should call the Justice Dept. and let them know about this company name, they might have overlooked it in their investigation. At the very least, post the name of the company on a public bulletin board on the internet.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

I am telling you all, the UIGEA was just the BEGINNING. This Republican justice dept. will not be satisfied until it is impossible to deposit to a poker site. And remember the NFL, MLB, NBA and others are giving them donations and encouraging them to do what they are doing in their crackdown on online gaming. It really is over for online poker in america, this time next year you won't be able to use western union, moneygram, a cashiers check or anything.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

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It really is over for online poker in america

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You're absolutely right!!
Except that I can still play 12 tables on Stars right now. Why is that?


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this time next year you won't be able to use western union, moneygram, a cashiers check or anything

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I've never used western-union, moneygram or cashiers checks.


Sites like Stars are not located in the U.S.

There will always be someone willing to try to process the money and there will always be ways to get online and to the sites even if the U.S. tries to block every site on every ISP in the country.

Stopping online-gambling is roughly as difficult as stopping all office football pools or underground poker-rooms imo.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

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Stopping online-gambling is roughly as difficult as stopping all office football pools or underground poker-rooms imo.


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Or cocaine. Not only is it illegal to buy, sell, or even have, but you can't bring it into the country. Good thing that problem was solved.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

You guys may be missing one important point.

Under the new pending legislation, any company that has been convicted of a crime cannot apply for a (much sought after) license.

The current US serving sites may choose to pull out now to avoid any chance of prosecution, so that they can serve us in the long run.

Makes perfect business sense.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

[ QUOTE ]
You guys may be missing one important point.

Under the new pending legislation, any company that has been convicted of a crime cannot apply for a (much sought after) license.

The current US serving sites may choose to pull out now to avoid any chance of prosecution, so that they can serve us in the long run.

Makes perfect business sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haven't they already broken the law? The day Bush signed the UIGEA into law, they were breaking the law. Leaving the U.S. market now isn't going to help them.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

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Haven't they already broken the law? The day Bush signed the UIGEA into law, they were breaking the law. Leaving the U.S. market now isn't going to help them.

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That's questionable.

The fact is though, the bill bans convicted criminals. If the sites were to pull out now, it's doubtful they would be prosecuted.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You guys may be missing one important point.

Under the new pending legislation, any company that has been convicted of a crime cannot apply for a (much sought after) license.

The current US serving sites may choose to pull out now to avoid any chance of prosecution, so that they can serve us in the long run.

Makes perfect business sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haven't they already broken the law? The day Bush signed the UIGEA into law, they were breaking the law. Leaving the U.S. market now isn't going to help them.

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No. The UIGEA didn't make any new laws about gambling. It made new laws about financial transactions to gambling websites that were already illegal.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

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Haven't they already broken the law? The day Bush signed the UIGEA into law, they were breaking the law. Leaving the U.S. market now isn't going to help them.

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That's questionable.

The fact is though, the bill bans convicted criminals. If the sites were to pull out now, it's doubtful they would be prosecuted.

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NM...post deleted.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

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Stopping online-gambling is roughly as difficult as stopping all office football pools or underground poker-rooms imo.

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I think it's WAY harder...there's just too much money in U.S. online poker...no way will it ever be stopped (unless they come out with new technology or something that can monitor/stop it)

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

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What we need to be asking:

Are these arrests in any way related to poker? Do any of the charges stem from transfer of $ to poker sites?

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What do you think?


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I don't know Roy, that is why I'm asking.

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One of the companies mentioned btw, was BetUS, which uses the cake network as their poker platform.

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Yes, but does BetUS offer sports betting for example?
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BetUS.com is a premier online gambling site with online sports betting


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Roy if you know this is poker related, please, cite some sources I am all ears.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

Taking a look at betUS's deposit options sheds some light on what this is likely about. http://www.betus.com/about-us/deposit-options.aspx

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

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Roy if you know this is poker related, please, cite some sources I am all ears.

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While this particular case may or may not involve the poker sites, it's related because at least one (probably more) major poker site is using the same exact methods to get money onto their site(s).

Edit: It's so obvious, why are you making me repeat it?

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

Your Illini avatar had me worried that someone here in CU was arrested. whew.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

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Edit: It's so obvious, why are you making me repeat it?

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Because Roy if it is just the DOJ after sportbetting sites again then it is not really a change of the status quo. Bad news, yes. Terrible news, no.

It's so obvious, why are you making ME repeat it?

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

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Because Roy if it is just the DOJ after sportbetting sites again then it is not really a change of the status quo. Bad news, yes. Terrible news, no.

It's so obvious, why are you making ME repeat it?

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This is nothin but speculation on your part.

Sorry but your own thoughts aren't so apparent to everyone else.

This is about the DOJ going after credit card merchants that enable funding of gambling sites. Period.

I guarantee these people would have been treated the same if they were illegally helping to fund poker sites only. The DOJ is not going to make a distinction.

Any other conclusion is pure speculation on your part.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

WOW, ok Roy

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I guarantee these people would have been treated the same if they were illegally helping to fund poker sites only. The DOJ is not going to make a distinction.


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This is about the DOJ going after credit card merchants that enable funding of gambling sites. Period.


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edit: Physician, heal thyself
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This is nothin but speculation on your part.


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edit: I rarely (if ever) get to say the above

2nd edit: edits are fun

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

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WOW, ok Roy

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I guarantee these people would have been treated the same if they were illegally helping to fund poker sites only. The DOJ is not going to make a distinction.


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edit: Physician, heal thyself
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This is nothin but speculation on your part.


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edit: I rarely (if ever) get to say the above

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Why is this such a stretch? At this point, the government is saying no transfers to gambling sites. There is no poker carveout. A bust is a bust. Be an intermediary to a gambling site of any kind, get busted. I don't see how anyone could think there would be any room for leeway on this.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

Leap Frog/Coy Roy---------Get a room.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

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WOW, ok Roy

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I guarantee these people would have been treated the same if they were illegally helping to fund poker sites only. The DOJ is not going to make a distinction.


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edit: Physician, heal thyself
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This is nothin but speculation on your part.


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edit: I rarely (if ever) get to say the above

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Why is this such a stretch? At this point, the government is saying no transfers to gambling sites. There is no poker carveout. A bust is a bust. Be an intermediary to a gambling site of any kind, get busted. I don't see how anyone could think there would be any room for leeway on this.

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It's not a stretch, but it IS speculation. The UIEGA covers UNLAWFUL gaming, and online poker has not been ruled illegal in all (or even many) states...but what do I know, I'm just a Canadian. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

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WOW, ok Roy

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I guarantee these people would have been treated the same if they were illegally helping to fund poker sites only. The DOJ is not going to make a distinction.


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added
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This is about the DOJ going after credit card merchants that enable funding of gambling sites. Period.


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edit: Physician, heal thyself
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This is nothin but speculation on your part.


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edit: I rarely (if ever) get to say the above

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Why is this such a stretch? At this point, the government is saying no transfers to gambling sites. There is no poker carveout. A bust is a bust. Be an intermediary to a gambling site of any kind, get busted. I don't see how anyone could think there would be any room for leeway on this.

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See my 2nd edit (the middle quote was supposed to be included) -- also they are charged under the wire act which AFIK hasn't been applied to poker. Is there something in the wire act regarding falsifying cc charges or whatnot(IANAL)?

So is this primarily anti-cc gambling with 'the book' being thrown at them, or is it anti-sports gambling with 'the book' being thrown at them?

There is a difference. I don't know, but I'm not claiming that I do unlike some people.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

So you're saying that even though they are laundering money, the gov won't bust them because it's going to poker sites and poker is not defined as of yet?

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

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So you're saying that even though they are laundering money, the gov won't bust them because it's going to poker sites and poker is not defined as of yet?

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I think he's saying we don't KNOW where the money's going or what's going to happen.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

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This is about the DOJ going after credit card merchants that enable funding of gambling sites. Period.

I guarantee these people would have been treated the same if they were illegally helping to fund poker sites only. The DOJ is not going to make a distinction.


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Slow down a bit. This is about the DOJ going after companies specifically set up to fraudulently launder credit card money. I doubt they're even making any distinction between gambling and non-gambling. This is a pretty textbook RICO case, and it seems to me that if the facts are reported correctly, they deserve to get hit by the full brunt of it. When DOJ goes after credit card processors who fund online gambling non-fraudulently, maybe I'll start worrying.

It will take more than UIGEA to make money laundering necessary for online gambling transactions. This is only a threat to half-assed operations -- these people weren't even smart enough to operate outside the US, for chrissake.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

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So you're saying that even though they are laundering money, the gov won't bust them because it's going to poker sites and poker is not defined as of yet?

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What I want to know is if this represents a change in the status quo. Has anything changed since the Neteller busts or are we essentially seeing more of the same?
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I hate to be an alarmist but this could possibly push a poker site teetering one way or the other to finally pull the plug on the US.


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Roy seems to be implying that this might scare the poker sites. If the Neteller case hasn't scared them off, why would this? I am honestly asking and looking for discussion here.

Also

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It's not a stretch, but it IS speculation. The UIEGA covers UNLAWFUL gaming, and online poker has not been ruled illegal in all (or even many) states...but what do I know, I'm just a Canadian.


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This is essentially my point. Ty Bobo, for summing it up succinctly

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

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This is about the DOJ going after credit card merchants that enable funding of gambling sites. Period.

I guarantee these people would have been treated the same if they were illegally helping to fund poker sites only. The DOJ is not going to make a distinction.


[/ QUOTE ]

Slow down a bit. This is about the DOJ going after companies specifically set up to fraudulently launder credit card money. I doubt they're even making any distinction between gambling and non-gambling. This is a pretty textbook RICO case, and it seems to me that if the facts are reported correctly, they deserve to get hit by the full brunt of it. When DOJ goes after credit card processors who fund online gambling non-fraudulently, maybe I'll start worrying.


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Thanks for pointing this out. I was focused on this as more anti-gambling (with the book being thrown at them) then money laundering (with the book being thrown at them) which was probably a mistake. Appreciate your input.

Mitch said:
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So you're saying that even though they are laundering money, the gov won't bust them because it's going to poker sites and poker is not defined as of yet?


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see above.

Re: 7 People Arrested for Online Credit Processing
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

This is about the DOJ going after credit card merchants that enable funding of gambling sites. Period.

I guarantee these people would have been treated the same if they were illegally helping to fund poker sites only. The DOJ is not going to make a distinction.


[/ QUOTE ]

Slow down a bit. This is about the DOJ going after companies specifically set up to fraudulently launder credit card money. I doubt they're even making any distinction between gambling and non-gambling. This is a pretty textbook RICO case, and it seems to me that if the facts are reported correctly, they deserve to get hit by the full brunt of it. When DOJ goes after credit card processors who fund online gambling non-fraudulently, maybe I'll start worrying.

It will take more than UIGEA to make money laundering necessary for online gambling transactions. This is only a threat to half-assed operations -- these people weren't even smart enough to operate outside the US, for chrissake.

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Did you even read the article?

"The indictment alleges that the defendants' businesses assisted Internet gambling sites by arranging fund transfers between U.S. bettors and the sites by using Western Union wire transfers."

"Brett Tolman, U.S. attorney for the District of Utah, said in a press release. “Payment processors who attempt to hide the true nature of the transactions they are conducting AND the Internet gambling Web sites that use these payment processors will be prosecuted and brought to justice," he said in a statement."


There's no wiggle room here, any gambling website that uses these merchants will be targeted.

It's extremely clear.