$33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t150 (6 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t2685)
UTG+1 (t2580)
CO (t910)
Hero (t2720)
SB (t2150)
BB (t2455)

Preflop: Hero is in Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to t910 (All-in)</font>, <font color="red">Hero ?

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

How is clicking "fold" dangerous?

Irieguy

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

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How is clicking "fold" dangerous?

Irieguy

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LOL should I click fold here? Because I moved the slide bar to the right and clicked another button to the right and i liked my results.

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

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How is clicking "fold" dangerous?

Irieguy

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LOL should I click fold here? Because I moved the slide bar to the right and clicked another button to the right and i liked my results.

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If you keep making calls like this, you're going to [censored] hate your results in the long run.

Barry

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

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How is clicking "fold" dangerous?

Irieguy

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LOL should I click fold here? Because I moved the slide bar to the right and clicked another button to the right and i liked my results.

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Dude, really? This is a super standard fold.

Irieguy

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

i'd like to debate this. Shorty is obviously obviously behind my hand over 1000s and 1000s over trials. The two blinds are obviously obviously behind my hand over 1000s of trials. I think an overshove is in order here.

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How is clicking "fold" dangerous?

Irieguy

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LOL should I click fold here? Because I moved the slide bar to the right and clicked another button to the right and i liked my results.

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Dude, really? This is a super standard fold.

Irieguy

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These spots seem to be the only places I make money. Am I way off here? CO is pushing very very wide here as I am sure u know.

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

put him on a range, then put the blinds on ranges they'd call with if you shoved, then sit down with a pencil and paper.

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

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put him on a range, then put the blinds on ranges they'd call with if you shoved, then sit down with a pencil and paper.

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cit,

that was my idea but before i spend a 1/2 hour working it out I'd like to get some professional opinions. I mean, if this is an obvious leak in my game then fine I'll accept that but if its close I'd like to do the math.

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

indi,

meow chow, just giving you grief for no good reason. apologies. i think the blinds are probably too deep for this to be correct, but i'm not 100% sure. i know that moves "like" this are where very bad players, and very good players make lots of chips, but medium players miss out. i know that jman in particular back in the day used to love shoving way weaker than A7 in spots "like" this.

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

ok cit its just that Irie came on and said fold like it was obvious but we know he's a fish so no biggie [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] seriously, i'll work it out later today and give a trip report.

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

Indy I like that you like to gamble.

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

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Indy I like that you like to gamble.

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I only like to gamble when I'm getting a +EV deal:) Not to say that I completely stay away from the horse track. But let's face it, we have to take every edge we can right?

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

CO has 1000 chips. He has three guys in the 2,000s behind him. That's a good argument for him to push with KQ; A9+; pairs; if he's feeling adventerous, you can toss in Q10s and other assortments of "live" type cards.

Now, think about how A7s fairs against this range. And the blinds, 50/150. And your stack. And what kind of a stack you're going to need to play aggro and steal and be a threat later on. I think it's a pretty clear fold.

Barry

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

I think CO pushes much much wider than what ou think here. I'd say any pocket pair, J7s+, J8o+, Q6s+, Q7o+, K6o, K5s+, and any ace. Is this reasonable?

edit: I mean my god has nobody every made one these overshove calculators? these spots come up like every day

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

1) I don't think you're ahead of CO's pushing range. Just because there are a lot of hands you beat in his range (and I debate he's pushing that wide, but I'll concede the point because it's not necessary to show this is a super-easy fold) doesn't mean you're ahead of the entire thing.

2) Even if you are ahead, you're not that far ahead. You're certainly not far enough ahead to make up the cEV~=$EV difference.

3) Overcalls absolutely [censored] you. Even if you're only getting overcalled 10% of the time, that's enough to kill any edge you might be able to cook into CO pushing range and the blinds' overcalling ranges.

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

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1) I don't think you're ahead of CO's pushing range. Just because there are a lot of hands you beat in his range (and I debate he's pushing that wide, but I'll concede the point because it's not necessary to show this is a super-easy fold) doesn't mean you're ahead of the entire thing.

2) Even if you are ahead, you're not that far ahead. You're certainly not far enough ahead to make up the cEV~=$EV difference.

3) Overcalls absolutely [censored] you. Even if you're only getting overcalled 10% of the time, that's enough to kill any edge you might be able to cook into CO pushing range and the blinds' overcalling ranges.

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Ok so I think its slightly +EV and I'd like to do the math. But before i spend 30 minutes doing it can we agree upon a range for CO so that my time brings some value to the forum today?

edit: And I'd also like to formulate some type of calculator with somebody's help to deal with these spots in the future.

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) I don't think you're ahead of CO's pushing range. Just because there are a lot of hands you beat in his range (and I debate he's pushing that wide, but I'll concede the point because it's not necessary to show this is a super-easy fold) doesn't mean you're ahead of the entire thing.

2) Even if you are ahead, you're not that far ahead. You're certainly not far enough ahead to make up the cEV~=$EV difference.

3) Overcalls absolutely [censored] you. Even if you're only getting overcalled 10% of the time, that's enough to kill any edge you might be able to cook into CO pushing range and the blinds' overcalling ranges.

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Ok so I think its slightly +EV and I'd like to do the math. But before i spend 30 minutes doing it can we agree upon a range for CO so that my time brings some value to the forum today?

edit: And I'd also like to formulate some type of calculator with somebody's help to deal with these spots in the future.

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Let's have some fun.
CO: {22+,A2+,K5s+,Q9s+,J9s+,K8o+,QTo+,JTo}
overcalls: {JJ+,AKs}

EDIT: I left A2+ out of CO's range.

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

CO: {22+, Axs, KTs+, QJs+ JTs+, Axo, KTo+, QJo+ JTo+}
overcalls: {JJ+,AKs}

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

ok give me some time i have to go to a meeting then teach my moms how to buy airline tickets online to come visit me

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

well this is some tough exercise lol:) I could make some assumptions to make it easier but that would be cheating. Can we assume same blind calling ranges when I fold as to when I overshove?

Re: $33 Regular - A typical, but dangerous spot
 

In case you find it interesting… Assuming no overcalling the equilibrium is:
CO push: 27.30 %
Btn call: 13,60 %
SB call: 18,10 %
BB call: 22,80 %

Calling with A7s is +0,2 % against this pushing range. Overcalling might make it –EV thou.