Not So Standard 2 Pair Hand
 

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
6 players
Converter

No Stats on Villian yet. I've seen him Donk-Call Top Pair with KQo on a raggy K-high board and then Check-Call it to Showdown HU. Not sure how he plays draws at this point.

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
2 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2.4SB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO caps</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5.2BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7.2BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to CO.

Results:
Final pot: 7.2BB

Re: Not So Standard 2 Pair Hand
 

Turn: 3 (5.2BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

River: 7 (7.2BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero folds.

I don't get it [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Not So Standard 2 Pair Hand
 

Are you calling the river if its an 8 of clubs or something like that? If not I don't get the turn call.

Re: Not So Standard 2 Pair Hand
 

I don't like it.

Given our read, and based on the flop action, i am not worried so much about a 3rd spade hitting... If we are to assign any credibility to our read on him being passive, this rules out capping a flush draw on flop...

With that being said, if we decide to call turn I am not folding river to a third spade. The only cards I fold here after deciding to call the turn are the obvious counterfeiting Aces and 3's.

I think I need a more credible read to lay down here on turn, but as played I think the river is a call.

Re: Not So Standard 2 Pair Hand
 

I think I would just call the flop and check raise the turn most of the time here so my hand would probably play out differently, but as played I probably call the river. It would help to know what his pfr is. Guys who donk bet top pair, flushes, paired boards, etc... in short handed pots (unless it was 4 handed maybe) are generally loose and straight forward from my experience (i.e. no idea what they are doing.) I think you're beat a lot here, but I think he could play AT or something this way.

Re: Not So Standard 2 Pair Hand
 

no way

just cuz u have the read he didnt give this much action with top pair previously doesnt mean he couldnt play TP this way on the flop this hand (and his turn and river bets are standard if he played A9+ this way on the flop).

anyone who open limps in the CO u cant give nearly enough credit to to assume they wouldnt do this with AT on the flop since u checked in the bb (AA or TPGK seem unlikely so he only fears 55 22 or A5 A2 on the flop with any OK A). Plus most people who cap a flush draw usually freecard the turn, if u werent beat on the flop which very few hands beat u u are probably good on the river, u cant take lines like this against bad players with hands this strong that dont include showing down. Id rather cr the turn than fold the river.

also id always cr the flop fwiw

Re: Not So Standard 2 Pair Hand
 

i would c/r flop. he won't check behind any hand that you don't want getting free cards. as played call river imo

Re: Not So Standard 2 Pair Hand
 

Flop: standard
Flop: I would c/r becouse he may fold stuff he would autobet. If he threebets I think I would cap and lead turn and river while my hand is still a favorite becouse cards that would destroy a turn c/r can come off or he may check behind on the turn.
As played I would not fold the river with such a limited read.

Re: Not So Standard 2 Pair Hand
 

I would call the river and expect to see a single A once in a while.
Also I like it better to bet/call the flop and then CR the turn if a non-spade comes.

Re: Not So Standard 2 Pair Hand
 

river fold is pretty bad. the spade really isn't a scary card in this situation; it's unlikely he was going batshit crazy with a fd and with the As on the board it is unlikely he was pumping a pair+fd on the flop. he shows up here with a bare ace enough of the time, but not enough to put more bets in imo. I was considering a bet/call on the turn but I think that given your read his range is pretty strong here.

I c/r this flop a lot too.

Re: Not So Standard 2 Pair Hand
 

hey guys, what's our range for villain after the flop?

Re: Not So Standard 2 Pair Hand
 

I pretty much dislike every street on this hand.

my play:

Flop: c/r and depending and cap depending on read
Turn: bet
River: c/c if the villain has nothing we can induce a bluff, Ax will bet here a lot so we still make a bet there, and we avoid having to b/c if the villain as the flush.

I really hate pumping pots out of position and then folding on the river.

Re: Not So Standard 2 Pair Hand
 

I'd call the river. I like the rest of the hand.

Re: Not So Standard 2 Pair Hand
 

I think an important point in this hand is that even if we give him a nitty stereotype and we dont think he could play just TPGK this way (or dont think he open limps those kinds of hands) is that there are only 16 hands that make sense (19 i guess) A2 A5 AA 22 and 55. We chop with 20-25% of that range, thats pretty much enough to call profitably on the river if he never shows up with less than two pair after the flop cap.

I think there are a number of other points that make this a trivial call esp vs an unknown or bad opponent in this specific spot(or anyone really), but if u look at it even just from a chop equity standpoint, ur pretty much breaking even on a call vs a super strong range so u should definitely call in less of a vacuum.

Re: Not So Standard 2 Pair Hand
 

which hands do we chop with?

am i misreading the board or are you?

Re: Not So Standard 2 Pair Hand
 

yeah sorry about that, my last reply i was thinking we had ace deuce not 52