KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $76.75
UTG+1: $33.25
CO: $119.75
Hero: $128
SB: $83
BB: $73

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $18</font>, 3 folds, CO calls.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($38.5, 2 players)
CO checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $26</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises all-in $101.75[/color

Villain is tag and a regular. Sth like 18/10/2. Do i have to fold here?
I think his range is TT+ here a lot, or AQ+.

Re: KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

I don't fold here. esp if you think he does this w/ TT+ AQ

Re: KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

i don't think i'm ever folding here

Re: KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

bengiec what do you think he holds?

Re: KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
bengiec what do you think he holds?

[/ QUOTE ]

have you been running bad or running good ?

if you've been running bad, 65, 54, A5, 55, AA and QQ = his range

if you've been running good, AQ, QK, QJ, TT, JJ, QT, and flush draws = his range

Re: KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

Is everyone going broke here?

Re: KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

im not going broke here, im stacking him

Re: KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

100% call

Re: KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

this is not 1010 or JJ. i have no idea if the kids good or not but no one good is ever doing this with AK since this line gets looked up so frequently. with co closing action preflop its a decent possibillity KK and AA are in his range and he doesnt want to blow u off the hand. um we lose to qq now. idk its a tough one, alot harder than most people on here seem to think. people seem to underestimate the difference between shoving and calling an all in. i guess get it all in but i woudlnt be super surprised if u lost this hand.

Re: KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

this is never QQ,
if we are beat its 5x, or AA

Re: KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

An 18/10 never ever has a 5 here unless he's tilting. I don't know why it can't be QQ, I'd play it exactly like that?

Re: KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

Rabbit you call o fold here?

Re: KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
An 18/10 never ever has a 5 here unless he's tilting. I don't know why it can't be QQ, I'd play it exactly like that?

[/ QUOTE ]
there are more +EV lines to play QQ than this i think.

Re: KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

orange,

Yeah in isolation there are more +EV lines to use here, but in regards to shania and merging your ranges wouldnt this be a good spot to shove with QQ against regulars (who actually try to handread) you play against on a regular basis?

Re: KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
An 18/10 never ever has a 5 here unless he's tilting. I don't know why it can't be QQ, I'd play it exactly like that?

[/ QUOTE ]
there are more +EV lines to play QQ than this i think.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't explain why the 18/10/2 can never have QQ here.

Re: KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

no one is retarded enough to check shove the but boat here

Re: KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
im not going broke here, im stacking him

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

HWat do you think i beat here?

Re: KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

I'm a little stunned about all the ppl saying call too. I think it's a relatively clear fold against a nitty opponent. He's not value shoving worse and while it might be a fine spot to bluff (depending on your cbet % in 3-bet pots), I never ever see it happening (especially not from nits).

You need ~32% equity to break-even.

Board: 5c Qc 5d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 29.636% 26.23% 03.41% 3635 472.50 { KhKs }
Hand 1: 70.364% 66.96% 03.41% 9280 472.50 { QQ+, AcKc, AQs }

I think this range is even a little too optimistic considering my perception of the general 18/10.

Can the call crowd provide their estimated range? I don't buy a value shove w/ JJ from a 18/10!

Re: KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

I think rabbit is pretty right here, but if we include JJ crazyness or sth stupid wehave these 32%

Re: KK 3bettet get raised on flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think rabbit is pretty right here, but if we include JJ crazyness or sth stupid wehave these 32%

[/ QUOTE ]

If villain is getting pushed around by 3 bets a lot, i think TT JJ and AQ all start appearing in his range, otherwise its tough to include it. One problem is pf stats don't necessarily give an idea of 3 bet calling range. Some of the tighter raisers don't like to fold to 3-bets. I had a 10% raiser TAG call my 3bet with KJo yesterday.