Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

He said it was a bad river bet. I was playing quick and thought the river sucked as soon as it came down but I still think the pot is plenty big enough for me to hope he decides to fold his whatever. BTW it's really weird to see yourself at the table without cards.

PokerStars 15/30 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

River: (6.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>

Re: Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

I know it's not what you asked, but why 3-bet 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] preflop? You have no showdown value.

I assume that Dean saw your cards at showdown. His thought process is likely:
- you have 2 hearts in your hand
- the board is dry other than the flush draw
- it is not likely Dean is on a draw against you
- Dean called the turn so you should expect him to call the river.

Re: Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

I dunno why I 3bet, I play more spazzy in 2/3 blinds. He made what I thought was a pretty bad calldown against me later with the explanation "he 3 barrelled earlier" and when I 3barrelled I had 980724123413 outs and when he called me down he had 0 outs.

Re: Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

preflop is fine

cf river. if he called the flop with ace high hes not folding that river. if he has a pair hes gonna think about folding.

Re: Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

what is it you expect him to fold at this point? on this board, if he calls turn, he calls river. especially if you guys have been aggro (which if ur 3 betting 79s u prob have been- i 3 bet that too, just sayin) i cant see him folding anything but bigger hearts which he must raise on flop &gt;80% of the time

Re: Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

um, dean does CR videos too?

Re: Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

I Think river bet is bad, you probably jsut didnt put enough thought into it at the time since a river bet is almost always worth it in this situation with a slightly different board.

I'd be surprised if that preflop play is a winner the way the games play these days (although I havent played 15 in a couple years).

Re: Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

Definitely check/fold river. Its all over. The only chance you have at winning this pot UI after a good player calls that flop is screw playing the turn.

Re: Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

[ QUOTE ]
preflop is fine

cf river. if he called the flop with ace high hes not folding that river. if he has a pair hes gonna think about folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Vs a Tag Im 3betting 98s all day in this spot assuming the BB is normal. So I certainly cant fault 97s.

Re: Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

[ QUOTE ]
Definitely check/fold river. Its all over. The only chance you have at winning this pot UI after a good player calls that flop is screw playing the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was it really already over for me UI after the flop call? Does he ever have like AT-AQ with Ah that decides he needs to peel once and see what happens? If that's the case this turn card is obviously going to make him stick around I suppose.

Re: Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Definitely check/fold river. Its all over. The only chance you have at winning this pot UI after a good player calls that flop is screw playing the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was it really already over for me UI after the flop call? Does he ever have like AT-AQ with Ah that decides he needs to peel once and see what happens? If that's the case this turn card is obviously going to make him stick around I suppose.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see youre point. I just dont think he'll have that type of hand and fold it often enough to to make a river bluff profitable. I could be wrong.

Re: Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

I think this would be OK if I knew it was you and you knew this, but in the normal turn of events you have to put me on a made hand, for which that is a great river and I'm gonna call all day. With a lot of history/meta you need to 3 barrel here every now and then.

Re: Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

This is a little off Topic, but does CR have much in the way of SH LHE videos?

Re: Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is a little off Topic, but does CR have much in the way of SH LHE videos?

[/ QUOTE ]

There are currently 6 short handed limit videos on the site with 4 being done by Dean. With the addition of Mike we will be putting out 3-4 shorthanded limit videos a month.

Re: Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
preflop is fine

cf river. if he called the flop with ace high hes not folding that river. if he has a pair hes gonna think about folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Vs a Tag Im 3betting 98s all day in this spot assuming the BB is normal. So I certainly cant fault 97s.

[/ QUOTE ]


I wouldn't rr 97h here but I definately think against Dean it is not a bad play. Don't think the 3 barrel bluff was horrible at least not as bad as everyone thinks.

Re: Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

Isn't a big part of the reason why rr 97hh here because of how it effects the profitability of our other hands?

I dunno after reading like some of the stox book i had a brief moment where I thought I should being playing like only profitable hands. But that makes no sense. The bottom part of your range is a losing part beause it make the top part a bigger winner. No?

Re: Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

essentialy yeah. i think thats overlooked sometimes. if you never reraised good players, dean for example, in the SB with hands like this, it would make your raise frequency from the SB too small and consequently youd be pretty easy to play against (from the SB).

i think this is why some ppl said 'vs. dean this is fine'

Re: Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

I know many players, myself included, who are able to call the turn with A high and who are able to fold on the river if they know they are up against a TAG who they think will interpret their turn call as being showdown bound. It might be a mistake to bet this river, but it is certainly only a small one if both players are TAG.

Re: Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't a big part of the reason why rr 97hh here because of how it effects the profitability of our other hands?

I dunno after reading like some of the stox book i had a brief moment where I thought I should being playing like only profitable hands. But that makes no sense. The bottom part of your range is a losing part beause it make the top part a bigger winner. No?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course generally speaking you are correct. However, I think these days (moreso this year) in the higher games make this specific play get you crushed becasue you are OOP and people are always capping the crap they stole with from the button. You just get so wrecked here when the button is capping 22, QTs, 78s here.

Re: Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

whenever a board pairs bluffs succeed less often.

Re: Hand vs Dean on CR vid
 

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't a big part of the reason why rr 97hh here because of how it effects the profitability of our other hands?

I dunno after reading like some of the stox book i had a brief moment where I thought I should being playing like only profitable hands. But that makes no sense. The bottom part of your range is a losing part beause it make the top part a bigger winner. No?

[/ QUOTE ]

A good rule of thumb should be to make the bottom part of your range hands that have greater than 45% equity vs your opponent's hand range. In the case of dean lets assume he is playing around 40% of the range on the button hands like QJo and JTs are near the bottom of the 3-betting range in a 1/2 blind structure game. In a 2/3rd blind structure game I think its ok to loosen the 3-betting range to hands that have 40% equity vs the button's hand range assuming the button will often fold and allow the hand to go heads up vs a good playing button - this means I would include 98s, but 97s is just 1% too low out of my range to 3-bet.

Alternatively I would however opt to call with 97s in a 2/3 blind structure and the BB is loose because the implied odds are good, but the hand still faces the muck in a 1/2 blind structure game no matter what.

The 3-bet of hands in 40%-50% equity range is good because we are creating fold equity on later streets with makes up for the loss of showdown value. Of course as you pointed out it also adds to your image/meta value. I think keeping the marginal 3-betting hands in the small blind to this 10% range is best.

PS: Hi Hold'em strat forums! I miss you! And yes I have become an equity nerd.