PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

There was a topic about guy who got his account locked and accounts of his friends (they have pokerschool or something but there no collusion and teamplay as I know)

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...ue#Post10121965

Anyway to make long story short - at end conversation party rep said (quoting and translating from russian:

"Policy of our company sais that users forbid to use ANY software except partypoker client. Only table and his cards."

On question about pokertracker and that 95% or players using it rep said "That's matter of time." and added something about race between men and motoracers".

Anyway this statement looks shocking for me - is Party really forbids usage ANY programs? Can anyone confirm or deny it? Is there anyone who close to partypoker management? Is this is an end for all professional players to play on partypoker.
Because if it's true that any winrates meaningless because Party can withold your funds anytime. I bet that rep was incompetent but he need to represent opinion of management, isn't he?

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

deny

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

[ QUOTE ]
deny

[/ QUOTE ]
That's fine with me but if I got name of this party rep who said that stuff about pokertracker and other can you believe me [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])

I am not first day in buisness and know that most of support guys is just underpaid ex-BK workers but if there any chance that it's not imcompenetce than we are in deep s...

That's my point. I really need to have a word from party or anyone who already made such requests to suppost - can I still use PT, PAHud and other software that allowed anythere else or not. That's my point. But thank you for your "deny" anyway [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

i sure hope its true. HUD's are ruining the games across the net.

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

So that's is.

Here is quotes of my today querries to partypoker reps (last email is most important):

1. My letter to them

[ QUOTE ]
I am player at partypoker (nickname XXXX). I haven't played
some time and thought about returning but today I encountered topic
on local poker forum:

http://forum.cgm.ru/msg?goto=159672&

And was astonished. You have closed accounts and withold funds
of some players because thay used side programs like pokertracker,
pokeracehud and spadeeye.
As said in topic on phone conversation your representative said that
your company FORBID using of any side programs while playing on your
site. Is is right?

Is this information:
http://www.partypoker.com/about_us/g...advantage.html

outdated and not reflect current policy of your company? Will my
account will be blocked and funds witholded if I will use
Pokertracker, Pokeracehud or SpadeEye while playing on your site?

What current policy of partypoker about using side programs? What
programs if any I can use while playing and what I can't use? I
expect full answer because if you don't allow programs that gather
statistic to improve my play I will definately move to other site.

[/ QUOTE ]

2. Their answer

[ QUOTE ]
Thank You for contacting PartyPoker Customer Service.

Our information is not outdated and it suggests that we provide the PokerSchool powered by PartyGaming. If however, our system detects a third party software that is interfering with our system in any way or cheating, we will block it.

If You have any further questions please feel free to contact us at any time.

Kindest Regards
Toma Stoichkov
PartyPoker Customer Service

[/ QUOTE ]

3. My next e-mail further questioning topic

[ QUOTE ]
> If however, our
> system detects a third party software that is interfering
> with our system in any way or cheating, we will block it.

Thank you for fast answer. My only question what is "cheating" in
terms of partypoker?

I read and understand your unfair advatage policy article but is still not
clear to me.

Do you aware of this programs?

PokerTracker
www.pokertracker.com
(program reads handhistories on hard disk and then
calculates average numbers about any of participiant of hands and
store it on database. (how often played enter the pot, how often
player raised etc.)

PokerAcehud
www.pokeracesoftware.com
(Program that displays on screen statistical information
about each player on table from pokertracker database)

SpadeEye
www.spadeeye.com
(Program that reads all players on selected limit of play (NL
200 for example) and displays statisctical information about each
player currently playing).

BetPot autohotkey script
www.overcards.com
(It allows to change bet in terms of
bigblind by mouse wheel to not pring it on keyboard)

None of this programs dosen't use any AI (does not perfom any
desicions) but only calculate, stores and display information that player can
have by himself.

Is this programs allowed to use while playing on PartyPoker or not? I
wondering this because as you should understand, I don't want to lose
large sums of money confiscated because of rules violation.

Thank you.

[/ QUOTE ]

And DRUMS, their answer:

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you for contacting Party Poker Customer Care.

The programs you have mentioned indeed are not A.I. programs. These programs are considered to be BOTs.
Certain companies offer for sale programs (“BOTS”) specifically created to play a game in place of an actual (human) player, and conceal its use from the other players, and avoid detection by the online gaming site. These programs are marketed by explicitly promising the prospective purchaser-user an unfair advantage over other online players not using that program.

Once identified, a player using forbidden programs will usually be notified. In that notice, we explain what we believe this player is doing and what steps we will take if he does not stop doing it immediately. In the most extreme cases we are prepared to suspend their PartyAccount and confiscate the funds in that PartyAccount without prior notice.

If you need any further information or assistance please, do not hesitate to contact us.
We wish you a wonderful time playing with Party Poker!


Best Regards,

Gery
Party Poker Customer Care

[/ QUOTE ]

We wish you a wonderful time [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

I think Gery is smoking the ganja.....

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think Gery is smoking the ganja.....

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought they use hashish in india but nevermind [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
I hope the problem will settle up somehow. Not every day you comeing really close to closing you party bankroll [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

Just after the story with blocking accounts started I sent a letter to party-support, and got answer. The date of the message is 4/23/07. Here it is:
==============================================
Dear XXX,

With reference to your e-mail, please note that our teams of game experts, in consultation with the Technical team are constantly evaluating software, in order to determine the suitability of such third party programs and their compatibility with our Poker Client software
and Terms and Conditions.

At present, we have no immediate plans to block this software, but such applications and their subsequent versions and upgrades are under constant review, to ensure their continued suitability.

Please note that our policy and the terms that apply to the use of third party software while playing on PartyPoker.com is set out in the Terms and Conditions of Use.

http://www.partypoker.com/about_us/g...advantage.html

In addition to and notwithstanding this policy, we would caution you against using any software offered to you by any third party in any case, for reasons of your own security and we would remind you that you accept and/or use such software solely and entirely at your own risk.

Contact us anytime, we are available around the clock to assist you with your account related questions and suggestions.

Sincerely,

Chaitanya
Investigations Team
[email protected]

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
Date: 2007-04-23 07:06
To: [email protected]
Subject: Poker software

Hi!
My login at partypoker is xxxx.

My wife is going to take part in PokerStrategy educational programm.
At their web-site they have a list of poker-soft to install:
http://www.pokerstrategy.org.uk/en/software/
Does partypoker permit to use the listed programms:
PokerTracker
PokerAce
Texas Grab'em Hand Recorder?
Looking forward an answer from you.
================================================== ===

Has the politics of partypoker been changed at this few days? It would be nice to see an official answer of partypoker management here, because it seems to me that ordinary staff at partypoker even don't have a common opinion about permited and prohibited programs.

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Has the politics of partypoker been changed at this few days? It would be nice to see an official answer of partypoker management here, because it seems to me that ordinary staff at partypoker even don't have a common opinion about permited and prohibited programs.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly kind of post that I expected here. Thank you!
I really want to know position of pp.com management about it just to be sure about my money.

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

I don't think if position of partypoker can be ANY clearly expressed. Last letter from them:

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you for contacting us at PartyPoker.com

To clarify, the use of any third party software when playing games on
our sites is prohibited.

We have systems in place that will detect any third party software being
used.

Any player found using third party software on our sites will have their
account closed permanently.

I hope this reassures you of our site integrity.

In case you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact
us. We will be more than happy to help you.

Thank you for choosing us as your online gaming site!

NOTE: Your PartyAccount username and password are confidential
information. No one from the company will ever ask for your password in
a phone call or email. Do not respond to any requests that ask for your
password
..
Kind Regards,

Nicolas K
PartyPoker Customer Care
------------------------------------------------------
PartyPoker, WPC Productions Limited, 711 Europort, Gibraltar

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

Is this the final answer of partypoker?
If so, the information should be interesting to 90%(may be more) of party-players, who use "third party software", and even more interesting to PartyPoker investors, having PartyGaming shares.

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is this the final answer of partypoker?
If so, the information should be interesting to 90%(may be more) of party-players, who use "third party software", and even more interesting to PartyPoker investors, having PartyGaming shares.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why I trying to spread this topic all around but there only a few answers gathered.

This is a last letter from them. If anyone have an idea to got answer from someone who more responsible for his words than John Doe from support it would be great.

Come on people, this is serious!

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think if position of partypoker can be ANY clearly expressed. Last letter from them:

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you for contacting us at PartyPoker.com

To clarify, the use of any third party software when playing games on
our sites is prohibited.

We have systems in place that will detect any third party software being
used.

Any player found using third party software on our sites will have their
account closed permanently.

I hope this reassures you of our site integrity.

In case you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact
us. We will be more than happy to help you.

Thank you for choosing us as your online gaming site!

NOTE: Your PartyAccount username and password are confidential
information. No one from the company will ever ask for your password in
a phone call or email. Do not respond to any requests that ask for your
password
..
Kind Regards,

Nicolas K
PartyPoker Customer Care
------------------------------------------------------
PartyPoker, WPC Productions Limited, 711 Europort, Gibraltar

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
How do they define "use on"? Are they only talking about bots being "used on" their site, or do they mean things like PAHUD being "used with" their software?

If you keep sending them emails then most likely you can add up the number that say "yes 3rd party software is fine" and "no 3rd party software is banned" to get an idea of what their real policy is, but I doubt you'll ever get a straight answer... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

You could also try sending Mike O' a PM and see if he knows - he did manage to get the vanishing buttons bug fixed for the Speed SNGs fixed quite quickly last time, so I guess he is prolly one of the best people to ask.

Juk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

May be nobody posts here because they strenuously studing cash-out options at partypoker.

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

Akimka,

You're pressing PartyPoker.com representatives to condone a list of grey area third-party software. They won't. Their official response would have contained the same vague yet stern language if you had asked the same questions three years ago.

Unofficially the line in the sand begins at apps that help guide your actions – "A.I. programs" and the like. They've been aware of stat trackers and HUDs for ages and have brought no measures against them. Relax.

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

[ QUOTE ]
May be nobody posts here because they strenuously studing cash-out options at partypoker.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, actually...

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Unofficially the line in the sand begins at apps that help guide your actions – "A.I. programs" and the like. They've been aware of stat trackers and HUDs for ages and have brought no measures against them. Relax.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. I got messages from pat (ptracker author) and I come to same opinion as you said - if they will want to ban anyone they always have reason so it's not to any good trying to make them say it loud and clear. Well anyway I think is't just a justification to ban people who they believe using forbidden programs and so on. I am relaxed right now but there only 5 buyins on my partypoker accout [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])))

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

The fact is that last week several party-accounts were blocked on the grounds of using third-party software even without notice while the players did not use any other programs but PokerTracker and PokerAce.

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

The policy is pretty clearly defined at http://www.partypoker.com/about_us/g...dvantage.html.
3rd party software that is defined as giving an unfair advantage (a.i./bots/data sharing) is prohibited.
3rd party software that works with your own data is not (pokertracker, etc.).
The confusion in this case seems to be that the agents are strictly referring to prohibited software, and it is being read as "all 3rd party software'.
Nothing has changed recently in the policies.

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

To MikeO/Party
As your departments are giving different answers to the simple question and the players, using PT and PA, were blocked even without notice, the chance of unfair blockage for every partypoker player is rising up to 100%.

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

Argh, what is the correct information? Is it allowed?

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

To MikeO/Party

Comment please. And officially answer not one question. I not óñòàíâëèâàë additional poker programs about half a year. If your policy has not changed, why also I have appeared is blocked? PT. PAH. SpadeEye. Pokerindicator, I used them always.


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...10#Post10118513

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

Added... To mike...
And still... I began to play on Party after And you me and pupils accuse, what we boats?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post9508817

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

does anybody know how they can find out about me using pokertracker and pa hud?

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i sure hope its true. HUD's are ruining the games across the net.

[/ QUOTE ]

What a weaktight nit

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

Mike, please comment the situation. And give me an official answer to the
questions:

1. I have never installed additional poker-programs but PokerTracker,
PokerAce Hud, SpadeEye and Pokerindicator. Why this programs always were
above suspicion, but now our accounts become blocked and our money are
seized? I'd like to stress, that I have not installed ANY OTHER PROGRAM for
half a year.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...10#Post10118513




2. I switched to play at partypoker after my fight against bots at UB
failured. I tried with all my might to make UB prohibit bots, showing them
facts.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...amp;Searchpage=

1&Main=9332733&Words=+Woodhead&topic=& amp;Search=true#Post9508817



3. Of course PokerStars is different company, which has it's own point of
view and it's own different politics. But you do have the same business and
similar rules
http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/prohibited/

Can you give me a list of acceptable programs?
This is a list of programs that we are aware of and permit:

PokerTracker.com
PokerStat.com
PokerInspector.com
Texas Calculatem
Poker Office
GameTime+
PokerAce HeadsUp
Poker Weapon
ThePokerDB.com
PokerIndicator.com
HoldemIndicator.com
Poker-Spy.com
HoldemGenius
Poker Sidekick
Paragon Poker Pal
PokerEinstein
PokerBility.com
Sit and Go End Game Tools (sngegt.com)
Holdem Partner
Insight Poker Hound
Poker Pro 2006 by PokerProLabs.com

Can you give me a list of programs which are prohibited?
This is a list of programs that we are aware of and prohibit:
PokerEdge
PokerProphecy
StarSpy
WinHoldem
PokerSherlock
Poker Manager
Sixth Sense
PokerAndroid
PokerBot+
Holdem Hawk
Holdem Pirate
Gambot

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Mike, please comment the situation. And give me an official answer to the
questions:

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Woodhead,
I cant give an official answer. That would have to come from the security team that deals with this stuff on a daily basis. I dont have access to your account information, the information on your case, or any other details.
I was simply pointing out that that policy we use has not changed, and that ALL 3rd party programs are not banned (such as pokertracker).

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

Ok, Mike. So we need someone from your security team. Would they be so kind to leave here their comments?

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

And has anybody at partypoker an access to the decision making at
investigation team?

It seems to me that supervisors at investigation team consider themselves as GODs, because they refuse to give me contacts of their boss, and refuse to provide any actual evidences, that I used bots. In fact there even could not be evidences, because I did not use bots and did not violate rules of partypoker.

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, Mike. So we need someone from your security team. Would they be so kind to leave here their comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

Groundhog/Woodhead,
For obvious reasons, the security team does not discuss individual account/investigations, especially not on public forums. Any communication would have to be through email with them.
I was just pointing out that the policy has not changed.

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

You know, Mike, our e-mails can't reach the right persons at partypoker. Our messages stop at the lowest levels of your support. Is there at partypoker a system of protection players from unjustified blockage? Who is controlling the decisions of your supervisors? And who exactly is responsible for ceasing money from fair players? I am looking forward an answer from you, Mike.

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

[ QUOTE ]
3rd party software that is defined as giving an unfair advantage (a.i./bots/data sharing) is prohibited.
3rd party software that works with your own data is not (pokertracker, etc.)

[/ QUOTE ]
Mike, could you please define the "etc." part a little more specifically?

The following programs:

PokerAce HUD
Spade Eye/Sixth Sense
AutoHotKey Scripts

...are (next to PokerTracker) the most commonly used software tools around here.

Knowing Party Poker's official stance on these programs would be very important to the 2+2 community.

Thanks,
OH

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

Once again excuse for my English ...
I do not object, if ANY materials on my business of playerswill be published. I have received the concrete answer by phone, that Pokertracker also gives advantage to the player. Also programs, except for client Party are forbidden ALL. And experts of your company on a question that why then other players using pokertracker are not blocked, has answered, that it is a matter of time. On this basis it is illegal Party has taken away our money. I shall repeat, that any programs the last half a year did not put. I am am depressed with professionalism of technical support. Earlier they declared, that we boats as at us and that we equally play identical intervals of a course, winning money. But it ïîêåðíàÿ school, and players (which, by the way, at all do not know each other) SHOULD play equally. Mike, your answer is washed too away. Answer on items (type 1-yes, 2-yes). Whether following programs are resolved at you and whether their use will lead to blocking of the account and confiscation of means.

1 PokerTracker
2 PokerAceHud
3 PokerInsdicator

And
4 Texas Calculatem
5 Poker Office
6 GameTime+
7 Poker Weapon
8 ThePokerDB.com
9 HoldemIndicator.com
10 Poker-Spy.com
11 HoldemGenius
12 Poker Sidekick
13 Paragon Poker Pal
14 PokerEinstein
15 PokerBility.com
16 Sit and Go End Game Tools (sngegt.com)
17 Holdem Partner
18 Insight Poker Hound
19 Poker Pro 2006 by PokerProLabs.com

In case 3 first items are resolved, I demand to unblock accounts, to return money and to apologize players. My login Woodhed181

All names I shall not name, I shall name still
White_v6
Tatjana113
the Others you easily establish

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

these threee screennames make me think there were bots involved

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

I don't mind if you release ANY materials of my issue (and other players). I
even think that you should release it, because we did not use prohibited
software and I can't imagine how your investigation team made the
conclusion.

In my phone conversation with partypoker I was told that pokertracker gives
the edge to a player and all programs but party-client are prohibited. I
asked the staff of your company "Why didn't you block other players for
usage of pokertracker?" And received an answer that "This is just the matter
of time." For this reason Partypoker unjustified took our money. I'll stress
that I have not installed any programs for last half a year.

I am "delighted" with the professionalism of your support staff. Earlier
they told us that we were bots, as we had the same starting hands and the
same strategy. But we are studying at poker-school, and players (who, by the
way, even don't know each other) should play the similar strategy.

Mike, your answer is too obscure.

Mike please answer exactly to each of the next points. (for example 1-yes,
2-no). Is this program permitted at partypoker and will not the usage of the
program lead to blockage and seizure of the funds?:

1 PokerTracker
2 PokerAceHud
3 PokerInsdicator

And
4 Texas Calculatem
5 Poker Office
6 GameTime+
7 Poker Weapon
8 ThePokerDB.com
9 HoldemIndicator.com
10 Poker-Spy.com
11 HoldemGenius
12 Poker Sidekick
13 Paragon Poker Pal
14 PokerEinstein
15 PokerBility.com
16 Sit and Go End Game Tools (sngegt.com)
17 Holdem Partner
18 Insight Poker Hound
19 Poker Pro 2006 by PokerProLabs.com


If the answer to first three points is yes, I demand to unblock our
accounts, return money and apologize.

My login is Woodhed181

I would not list all accounts, say only

White_v6
Tatjana113

Other nicknames you can easily establish by yourself.

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

OK. I have question, why you guys, who think that are such good profis, have to play using this software and are complaining all the time your accounts are being closed. Of course they will keep closing you, good work partypoker guys, all the players must have equal chances to win. If you are good player you will use your experience and calculate your chances alone!!! You wonna become a shark, stop thinking as a fish!!!!

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

And another question, why this software is not allowed at the tournaments like WSOP, hm, never seen Doyle Bronson or Phil Hellmuth or Johny Chan calculating their hand nistory with some software, that's why vote for PURE POKER!
You wonna become a shark, stop thinking as a fish!!!!

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

If I would like pure poker, I shall play a casino.
Or Bossmedia...

Re: PartyPoker prohibits usage of any side-software?
 

Carcrass, are you a doggy from partypoker?
Everybody here uses Pokertrackrer, PokerAce, PokerOffice. You could not improve your game without analyzing your hands. If you wish a pure play, than internet-poker is not your case, because even official party manager Mike O already confirmed that listed programs are permitted.

Party go mad
 

Ok, my account isn't blocked... yet.

I play under the same affilate as Woodhead. The reasons Party gives when block them are ridiculous. I really now scared to play on Party. MikeO, please force investigation of my account "PeterRus" and tell me - can i proceed playing and get my money which i of course will win. I don't want to waste my time winning money for PartyPoker.

I also confirm that Woodhead and other guys that were blocked under this affilate weren't used anything forbidden by Party like any types of bots or pokeredge. I know this exactly if my words mean anything. Main teacher of this limit poker school is a friend of mine and my student in the past. So i know that he as well as his students very probably playing close to at least "not bad" play in limit poker and there is some good probability that i while play my mid-high limits in a very similar way they do can get a ban from PP due to reasons - that there are some players "that play similar play".

Party exceed theirs powers and need to suffer a punishment. Just my opinion.

P.S. I used to ignore all the posts from players i didn't know about Party blockings of accounts in the past. I always thought that these players broke the rules for sure and Party is fair. Now im steaming cause i know that party is absolutely wrong.