Beware of Absolute Poker
 

Just thought I would post this little story about my experience with the morons that run Absolute Poker. A few months ago I decided to try out their site so I deposited a small amount of cash on my VISA card. Decided after a short while that I didn't like it, so I made a request to withdraw all of my cash (which wasn't very much).

They send me an email saying that they can't give me my money either on my VISA card or by bank draft (or by any method whatsoever) until I send them scanned copies of my VISA card and one other piece of ID for a "security check". Never mind that this wasn't told to me in advance before I put the money on their site, but it makes no sense to me how they can take money OFF OF a visa card without a "security check", but somehow can't put it BACK ON without one. Conversations with customer service morons leads nowhere except to the standard "I'm sorry sir, that is our policy" crap.

I give up at that point and decide that they can just keep my money, since it's not a lot and I'm not about to go through this hassle for the amount in question. (Not to mention that I am somewhat uncomfortable with a poker site having scanned copies of my visa card somewhere on their server.) Eventually I decide for the hell of it to log back on to Absolute and throw all the money into a tournament, to see if I win - if I do, I figure I would maybe want to go through the hassle of withdrawing a more significant amount of money... but I find out that my account is still locked, and they refuse to release the funds back into my poker account AT ALL until I send them copies of my VISA card.

So let me get this straight:

1) I sign up for an account with these scam artists, they take money off my card and let me play at their site.

2) I decide I want my money back, they won't give it to me in any way whatsoever until I send them scans of my cards, which is a policy that is posted NOWHERE on their site and in any case was CERTAINLY not made clear at the time I signed up.

3) They now refuse to cancel the withdrawal request and have decided to keep my money "in limbo" indefinitely until I send them this information, not even letting me play on their site with it.

I have played at a number of other sites and never had these types of problems, or encountered such evasive answers from customer service when asking for a simple explanation of their policies and procedures. In short - if you don't already have an account at Absolute, I would be careful about opening one!

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

This is all extremely standard, lots of sites require identication in order to cashout. I have no issues with anything they have done thus far. Sorry.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

Another fish...

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

Not standard at all. On cashout - yes, but why they don't let him play?

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not standard at all. On cashout - yes, but why they don't let him play?

[/ QUOTE ]

He deposited with a credit card and shortly thereafter tried to withdraw the funds. That raises the "credit card fraud" red flag. Once that flag is waiving, they aren't going to let him keep playing until he produces proper evidence that the card is his.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not standard at all. On cashout - yes, but why they don't let him play?

[/ QUOTE ]

He deposited with a credit card and shortly thereafter tried to withdraw the funds. That raises the "credit card fraud" red flag. Once that flag is waiving, they aren't going to let him keep playing until he produces proper evidence that the card is his.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

It shouldn't draw a red flag if I want the money sent back to the same damn card I took it off of. How the hell is that a red flag? Not to mention that I first requested a bank draft sent to my address, which is the SAME address as the credit card, made out to the SAME NAME as the credit card. That shouldn't raise any flags at all, since I fail to see how that could be a scam. If someone stole my card, wanted to put money from it onto a poker site, then wanted to withdraw money BACK ONTO IT, how the hell is that possibly fraud? How is it a scam if the money is going to the same name as on the card? Not to mention that there is NO REASON they should not allow me to continue playing if I want to in any case. The morons at customer service couldn't supply any answers to these simple questions.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

FWIW I've had zero problems with AP over 4-months of play on the site and many withdrawls.

Lucky

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

Standard.
Welcome to internet commerce and particularly internet poker.
Send the documents and get your money, or don't send the documents and STFU.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

I eagerly await the opening of your poker site.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

So they wont give you your 100 bucks that you deposited and then acted all shady about?

Good for them, Im going to open an account.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

A lot of players have that sort of stuff already scanned into there computer.
That way when a pokersite or casino requests documantation you can attach it to an email and in a matter of seconds its done.

Dont give me that I dont feel comfortable giving that information crap! People deposit thousands of dollers with these places and they make millions in profits they don't care about your chump stuff.
Its all for your protection anyway.
So quit this beware and warning crap and just send them the stuff or don't

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
It shouldn't draw a red flag if I want the money sent back to the same damn card I took it off of. How the hell is that a red flag? Not to mention that I first requested a bank draft sent to my address, which is the SAME address as the credit card, made out to the SAME NAME as the credit card. That shouldn't raise any flags at all, since I fail to see how that could be a scam. If someone stole my card, wanted to put money from it onto a poker site, then wanted to withdraw money BACK ONTO IT, how the hell is that possibly fraud? How is it a scam if the money is going to the same name as on the card? Not to mention that there is NO REASON they should not allow me to continue playing if I want to in any case. The morons at customer service couldn't supply any answers to these simple questions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look up money laundering in the dictionary.
And get a few subscriptions to Vibe while you're at it.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

So you refuse to send in this information?

Could it be because you are underaged and cant?

I see no other reason why you would take MORE time to write this then it would to scan and send a single email and have your funds already.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
Look up money laundering in the dictionary.
And get a few subscriptions to Vibe while you're at it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have looked up money laundering in the dictionary, and other places... and nothing tells me how to launder money using a credit card in the way I mentioned. So since you're so much smarter than me, why don't you just post here in detail exactly how one might launder money at Absolute Poker, given the circumstances I described. I'm awaiting your response...

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Look up money laundering in the dictionary.
And get a few subscriptions to Vibe while you're at it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have looked up money laundering in the dictionary, and other places... and nothing tells me how to launder money using a credit card in the way I mentioned. So since you're so much smarter than me, why don't you just post here in detail exactly how one might launder money at Absolute Poker, given the circumstances I described. I'm awaiting your response...

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding me?

Deposit dirtly money, withdraw clean money.

There you go, that was hard.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

I'll save him the trouble.

1) deposit money from a credit card.
2) request a full cashout.
3) contact credit card company to refuse payment on original deposit.
4) calculate your profit.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Maybe you are too innocent to realize how many people try this crap?

ED: Disclaimer, I'm guessing this is how it's done. Isn't it this simple?

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
Dont give me that I dont feel comfortable giving that information crap! People deposit thousands of dollers with these places and they make millions in profits they don't care about your chump stuff.Its all for your protection anyway. So quit this beware and warning crap and just send them the stuff or don't

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously you don't get it. I know that the poker site isn't going to _purposely_ screw me over by giving out my credit card information, but when I signed up on their site I NEVER agreed to let them store that information on their server for their next 10 years so someone can hack into it (a corrupt employee, internet hacker, or whomever). Offshore-based poker sites are not exactly the pinnacle of financial security, if you know what I mean, and they never told me that I would have to give up my CC info to THEM to get my money back.

For the record, there is a BIG differece between using your credit card at an offshore site one time through a trusted third party processor, and giving that information to the site itself so they can store it forever on their servers. I trust that the site itself won't steal my info, but I don't certainly don't trust their security/audit procedures OR their employeess, especially when they aren't even based in the US. Bottom line: they should have told me that I needed to submit my CC info TO THEM in order to get my money off the site, which is a fact that is explicitly mentioned nowhere. Lots of people have their CC info stolen/hacked every day because they are not careful with it.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dont give me that I dont feel comfortable giving that information crap! People deposit thousands of dollers with these places and they make millions in profits they don't care about your chump stuff.Its all for your protection anyway. So quit this beware and warning crap and just send them the stuff or don't

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously you don't get it. I know that the poker site isn't going to _purposely_ screw me over by giving out my credit card information, but when I signed up on their site I NEVER agreed to let them store that information on their server for their next 10 years so someone can hack into it (a corrupt employee, internet hacker, or whomever). Offshore-based poker sites are not exactly the pinnacle of financial security, if you know what I mean, and they never told me that I would have to give up my CC info to THEM to get my money back.

For the record, there is a BIG differece between using your credit card at an offshore site one time through a trusted third party processor, and giving that information to the site itself so they can store it forever on their servers. I trust that the site itself won't steal my info, but I don't certainly don't trust their security/audit procedures OR their employeess, especially when they aren't even based in the US. Bottom line: they should have told me that I needed to submit my CC info TO THEM in order to get my money off the site, which is a fact that is explicitly mentioned nowhere. Lots of people have their CC info stolen/hacked every day because they are not careful with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most sites allow you to clock out all but the first 4 and last four digits.

There is another reason you wont send in your info

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding me?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm not kidding you.

[ QUOTE ]

Deposit dirtly money, withdraw clean money.

There you go, that was hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only reason that wasn't hard was because you didn't explain anything. Please read my original post and explain how my actions could consitute money laundering. IN DETAIL. Money goes off a credit card, money comes back on the same credit card. Please explain how money laundering could be a part of that action.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'll save him the trouble.

1) deposit money from a credit card.
2) request a full cashout.
3) contact credit card company to refuse payment on original deposit.
4) calculate your profit.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Maybe you are too innocent to realize how many people try this crap?

ED: Disclaimer, I'm guessing this is how it's done. Isn't it this simple?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing that this won't work after a few weeks/months have passed - not to mention that the company could come after you, although I can see how they might not bother. In any case, it doesn't explain why they wouldn't just issue a refund back to the same card - they could launch a complaint with the CC company if they issued a refund and the customer cancelled the initial charge. Pretty simple, I would think... especially since proof of the refund would be on the CC record.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing ...
I would think ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, boy. Oh, boy, Oh, boy. I can't wait until you open up your poker site!

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

trader01,

this post is well and good but you're not convincing anyone here, because frankly, a good chunk of us would rather fax in 6 forms of ID before every cashout and the rest don't give a damn.

also, it's hysterical that people trust a poker site with all of their personal and financial information and link bank accounts/credit cards to it, but then always balk when it comes to their SSN or (omg no) their credit card that they already gave the site once in the first place.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]

Most sites allow you to clock out all but the first 4 and last four digits.

There is another reason you wont send in your info

[/ QUOTE ]

The main reason is that it's a hassle, and I shouldn't have to do it just to get a refund put back on the same card. Nobody on this site or anywhere else has yet explained to me why I need to provide anything just to get that money put back where it came from. The closest thing was the idea that that I could decline the charge, but that doesn't make a lot of sense and in any case they would require the security check of everyone who deposited through CC if it was the answer, which is not something that they do.

All I was looing for was a SPECIFIC explanation as to why they need this information and how my actions could construe something illegal, and NOBODY has provided it. I don't trust a site that can't explain their actions, and the answers they gave me sounded ridiculous (when they bothered to give any at all). Certainly they haven't explained why they won't release the money for me to use at their site, in any case - that's something that REALLY makes no sense.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
also, it's hysterical that people trust a poker site with all of their personal and financial information and link bank accounts/credit cards to it, but then always balk when it comes to their SSN or (omg no) their credit card that they already gave the site once in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the point - I DIDN'T give them my CC info, I gave it to their independent 3rd party CC processor. Now they want it too. In any case, do as you will... I haven't had these types of problems at other sites, and their customer service has been a lot better, so I will just play there. All I ever asked them for was a decent explanation for why they needed this to refund my money to the same CC, and got NOTHING but vague responses and evasion in return.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
I DIDN'T give them my CC info, I gave it to their independent 3rd party CC processor.

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

STOP! Yer killin' me.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

I have deposited and cashed out hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of transaction at absolute over the past 2 years with no problems and currently have a 5 figure balance on the site. OP is a douchebag.

Listen, these are the facts of life using a VISA card
 

1. Not everyone is as honest as you. Some people use fake or stolen VISA cards to make deposits. A site accepts a deposit and gets certasin information, which it then corroborates thru a variety of means. You are very mistaken if you think that a site does NOT check everyone who deposits at some point.

2. Why you cannot play ? If the information they get from third parties either cannot confirm what you told them or there is a conflict, the site WILL ask you for further verification before letting the chips you purchased on credit circulate. Simply put, they are the guarantors of those chips to other players; it is not unreasonable to ask you to correct or provide corroboration for information furnished at the time of purchase.

3. One of the MAJOR benefits Neteller had for sites was that the sites were indemified againsy customer fraud in deposits. That is no longer available for the US/Canadian markets. Verification might seem like a comparative pain in the ass to you, but consider having to drive however many miles whenever you want to play poker.


4. VISA as a general rule does NOT allow a gaming merchant to refund money back to the card used. (That WAS permitted like 4 years ago, but as a general rule, not currently.) THAT is why the sites are issuing checks as payments for cashouts.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Most sites allow you to clock out all but the first 4 and last four digits.

There is another reason you wont send in your info

[/ QUOTE ]

The main reason is that it's a hassle, and I shouldn't have to do it just to get a refund put back on the same card. Nobody on this site or anywhere else has yet explained to me why I need to provide anything just to get that money put back where it came from. The closest thing was the idea that that I could decline the charge, but that doesn't make a lot of sense and in any case they would require the security check of everyone who deposited through CC if it was the answer, which is not something that they do.

All I was looing for was a SPECIFIC explanation as to why they need this information and how my actions could construe something illegal, and NOBODY has provided it. I don't trust a site that can't explain their actions, and the answers they gave me sounded ridiculous (when they bothered to give any at all). Certainly they haven't explained why they won't release the money for me to use at their site, in any case - that's something that REALLY makes no sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Drive to casino.
Purchase chips with cash.
Play poker.
Cash out chips to cash.
Go home, very little hassle, problem solved.

Re: Listen, these are the facts of life using a VISA card
 

[ QUOTE ]
1. Not everyone is as honest as you. Some people use fake or stolen VISA cards to make deposits. A site accepts a deposit and gets certasin information, which it then corroborates thru a variety of means. You are very mistaken if you think that a site does NOT check everyone who deposits at some point.


[/ QUOTE ]

So why exactly then is a security check required to send a bank draft to the same name and address as is on the credit card? If I stole joe somebody's CC, how am I making money off of him by taking cash off the card, depositing it on a site, and then sending him a bank draft in his name to his home address?

[ QUOTE ]

2. Why you cannot play ? If the information they get from third parties either cannot confirm what you told them or there is a conflict, the site WILL ask you for further verification before letting the chips you purchased on credit circulate. Simply put, they are the guarantors of those chips to other players; it is not unreasonable to ask you to correct or provide corroboration for information furnished at the time of purchase.


[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting... except that they already let me play when I deposited and were already responsible for those funds. So that explanation makes no sense.

[ QUOTE ]

3. One of the MAJOR benefits Neteller had for sites was that the sites were indemified againsy customer fraud in deposits.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and I am STILL waiting on a reasonable explanation for how depositing with someone else's CC and then getting a bank draft sent to that person's name and address can somehow constitute fraud against that person. I'm dying for an explanation on this.

Re: Listen, these are the facts of life using a VISA card
 

So you say your underage huh?

Re: Listen, these are the facts of life using a VISA card
 

Absolute's t&c clearly state that they reserve the right to verify your identity. STFU, get over it, send in your info, and let's move on.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding me?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm not kidding you.

[ QUOTE ]

Deposit dirtly money, withdraw clean money.

There you go, that was hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only reason that wasn't hard was because you didn't explain anything. Please read my original post and explain how my actions could consitute money laundering. IN DETAIL. Money goes off a credit card, money comes back on the same credit card. Please explain how money laundering could be a part of that action.

[/ QUOTE ]




Good god you're an idiot

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
Good god you're an idiot

[/ QUOTE ]

So why don't you actually show me your brilliance and explain that whole money laundering thing to me, in detail, like I have requested about 100 times in this thread already...

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

You will never get your cashout refunded to your credit card if you live in the U S. So, they just want proof of who you are. It is only a one time deal. Get over it.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]
trader01,

this post is well and good but you're not convincing anyone here, because frankly, a good chunk of us would rather fax in 6 forms of ID before every cashout and the rest don't give a damn.

also, it's hysterical that people trust a poker site with all of their personal and financial information and link bank accounts/credit cards to it, but then always balk when it comes to their SSN or (omg no) their credit card that they already gave the site once in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any deposit with a credit card will inevitably require an ID check at withdrawal. However, any player sending their SSN number to a foreign site might be asking for trouble. Scans of driver's licenses, OKAY. Scans of banks statements or utility bills, OKAY. Never send your SSN number to any gambling site. Ever. Identity thieves prize the SSN number the most. If the site's got bad security or bad employees, your f***ed. You can cancel a credit card. You can't cancel your SSN. There is absolutely no reason for any gambling site to ask for your SSN. Ever.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

read the terms. cashouts back to credit card are not allowed. AP is doing you a special favour here.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

Because, if you can credit a withdrawal back to your C C then it would be clean money. You can put dirty money on a C C and no, I will not explain how.

Re: Beware of Absolute Poker
 

[ QUOTE ]


I have played at a number of other sites and never had these types of problems, or encountered such evasive answers from customer service when asking for a simple explanation of their policies and procedures. In short - if you don't already have an account at Absolute, I would be careful about opening one!

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't know what it is with all the sarcastic answers all the time on 2+2. Anyways, I'll explain. If you deposit by credit card, every gambling site will ask for identification verication. Doesn't matter if you ask for the withdrawal to be put back on to the card or if you ask for a bank draft to be sent to the address and name on the card. Yeah, I know it doesn't seem to make sense. But the answer is simple.

Standard procedure. For the sites, better safe than sorry.

With Neteller, there is no risk of charge backs or stolen credit cards. With credit cards, expect identity verification as the norm, almost alway on withdrawal. If you never withdraw anything, there won't be any identity check whatsoever at most sites.

Re: Listen, these are the facts of life using a VISA card
 

[ QUOTE ]
So you say your underage huh?

[/ QUOTE ]