Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

Here is a question for you who play live.
I am getting ready to play live so I am interested in tipping culture.

If I play limits from 3/6 to 6/12 what are some general guidelines for tiping, like when and how much?

Does it matter if you losing or winning?

Any difference between US and Europe?

Thanx [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

tip $1 for each reasonably sized pot that you win. that's pretty much it.

at the poker clubs in Paris, France the lowest denom chip was 2 euros, so you would tip that instead. but you get the idea.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

1 dollar?!? I feel like a tool when I tip one dollar. I play at a local Indian casino in Northern California and i love the dealers there. I tip a dollar if i chop a pot or if i take down a very small pot. Two dollars is how much i usually tip for a medium sized pot and I'll tip all the way up to 5 dollars of the pot gets big enough, and yes this is in just a 3/6 SOMETIMES a 4/8 limit game. These games are so amazingly soft that tipping the dealers + the rake will not screw with your profits as much as you might think. Also, having the floor/dealers on my side has helped me in various situations. Hope this could help.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

It appears the dealers are chiming in.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

tipping is for fools.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

I tip a dollar for pretty much everything. I got chastised by some people for tipping too small on a $250 splash pot, so you want to tip more there. But other than that, I tip $1 after showdown. If a hand doesn't make showdown, I probably don't tip, but I may throw an extra when the dealer ends his down, especially if I have several small pot flop folds or the like. (Not that likely playing LHE live, but eh.)

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

No, I am most certainly not a dealer. I am not even asian (i am saying this because i have noticed asian players tip much more than the white players) but the dealers are just treated like scum so often i feel for them. I have become good friends with the dealers because of this and i when the dealers would come sit in the 3/6 game i have had them take pots off of me and have them try and give me my money back afterwards. The fact of the matter is if you are trying to pinch every single dollar in a 3/6 game, don't play it. If u are playing for every dollar to live off of, eat, pay your bills, you shouldnt be in a 3/6 game anyway. In my opinion you can make a hefty profit in a 3/6 game but if you are a 3/6 grinder, keep your day job, tip the dealers if they are nice, if they are jerks then leave them hanging. But i think tipping 1 dollar after you drag down a 120 buck pot is a slap in the face and a kick in the balls.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

Ok, since these threads always degenerate into a flame war, please start here:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=0#Post9723713

This will bring up tons of threads all with good information for you.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

[ QUOTE ]
No, I am most certainly not a dealer. I am not even asian (i am saying this because i have noticed asian players tip much more than the white players) but the dealers are just treated like scum so often i feel for them. I have become good friends with the dealers because of this and i when the dealers would come sit in the 3/6 game i have had them take pots off of me and have them try and give me my money back afterwards. The fact of the matter is if you are trying to pinch every single dollar in a 3/6 game, don't play it. If u are playing for every dollar to live off of, eat, pay your bills, you shouldnt be in a 3/6 game anyway. In my opinion you can make a hefty profit in a 3/6 game but if you are a 3/6 grinder, keep your day job, tip the dealers if they are nice, if they are jerks then leave them hanging. But i think tipping 1 dollar after you drag down a 120 buck pot is a slap in the face and a kick in the balls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, dealer.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

I would just like to here an argument other than, he must be a dealer, that explains how tipping 1 dollar is not stingy.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

Why tip more?

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yup, dealer.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL check brokeski's profile for extra laughs. dude obviously has tons of life experience to understand the relative value of money.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

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I would just like to here an argument other than, he must be a dealer, that explains how tipping 1 dollar is not stingy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain how you can tip $2-5 a hand in 3/6 limit and not impact your win rate a lot and we will start listening, so far you havent addressed this real question

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

I did explain, that these 3/6 and 4/8 games are just so soft that say you spend in one night of playing for like, 6 or 7 hours, you spend 20-50 dollars in tips, it is still very possible to be up over 500 dollars, in one night. i mean if you don't believe me in how soft these limit games are come up to Oroville, CA and go to Gold Country Casino. The thing is, the more you are winning the more you are tipping so instead of winning 220 dollars, maybe you only win 200. oh no!!!

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yup, dealer.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL check brokeski's profile for extra laughs. dude obviously has tons of life experience to understand the relative value of money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to save some time, his 2+2 bio:
Been playing poker/gambling online for about three years. I graduated high school early and now i am going to the local Jr. college. I drink vodka and smoke cigarettes a lot.

His myspace profile:
i gamble, play guitar hero and do anythithing else that might make me feel like a badass.


Can i then deduce that tipping $2-5 a hand in 3-6 limit poker is badass

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

You know what is more funny than a young kid not thinking a dollar is a lot of money? It's a old man who has tons of life experience thinking that a dollar is.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

hang on, lets look at it this way. its MORE badass than tipping 1 dollar. am i right?

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

Yep, this thread died fast. I see mods have been notified on a few posts already, ROFL!

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You know what is more funny than a young kid not thinking a dollar is a lot of money? It's a old man who has tons of life experience thinking that a dollar is.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sure that kind of attitude didn't mesh very well at last week's seder.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

haha i like the cleverness, but i am no longer practicing.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

Ok, I deal, and I never like telling people how much you should or shouldn't tip. First, because I think hustling for tokes is degrading and embarrassing to me as well as the players. Second, I have a FT job elsewhere so it's not like I have to depend on it to make a living if I have a crappy down.

If this helps, this is what's typical, for those who don't have any frame of reference:

Generally, on lower limit tables, $1 is standard for most pots with anything $20-ish. If it's a particularly large pot, like $100+, then you might see a little extra, like $2 or maybe $3. If the pot is like $10 or $14 you typically don't see a toke.

Now I'm talking about what's the normal average, not what I think you should or shouldn't tip. It's up to you whether you want to be a below- or above- average tipper.

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tipping is for fools

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Well, you don't have to tip at all. The thing is though, who's going to do the job for $4/hour? Forget about competent dealers, or any dealers for that matter - no one works for that. The players could deal among themselves, but you can do that at home anyway and save on the rake.

If no one tipped, casinos would have players pay higher fees up front to play, like tournaments, in order to pay the dealers. Now, you're still spending the same money, but you've lost the ability to distribute it as you see fit between good and bad dealers. Slow and inexperienced dealers would earn as much as fast and skilled dealers, like over in table games. I know this is one of those community-minded ideals but it's the truth.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

I like what you just had to say, what is your piece of mind on card rooms or casinos where all dealers split their tips. does it make some dealers not go the extra yard because they don't have to. I get the feeling in places like that, that the good dealers dont get what they deserve and the bad ones get more than they deserve obviously. do you tip differently in this situation as you said you have to vary tips between the good and the bad.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

I prefer keeping my own tokes in our poker room, but when I work the main floor with table games (less often now, thankfully) I have to pool tokes with everyone. I make more in poker, usually by $3-$4/hour, but I have to move and not f around BSing. You have to keep the games going without making goof-ups or being impolite, so there's a little more pressure dealing poker for me. A monkey could deal blackjack.

And yes, when playing I will tip more or less depending on the dealer, but a lot of this takes care of itself. Better dealers run faster games for the most part, so there are more pots they can get tipped from.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

I've never played in Europe.

When playing 3/6 LH to 4/8 LH or 1/2 NL I'll tip $1 to $5 depending on the size of the pot. My normal tip is a $1.

Imma a small-balla.

P [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

The rake is to high at small stakes tables to justify tipping every hand you win. What I do (assuming I won a pot) is throw a dollar or two when the dealer is about to rotate out.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

I don't know what kind of 3/6 game you guys play in but let me tell you about mine, which i am sure is similar around the US. almost every other hand there is a live six, you will never see a flop for 3 dollars hardly ever. I would say an average of 5-8 players see a flop for at least 6 dollars a hand. lets just say its about 6 player, thats 36 dollars in the pot. I would say about 8 out of every 10 pots the pot is over 50 dollars at least, now there is a 3 dollars rake with a 1 dollar drop for the bad beat jackpot. so on average you are looking at a 50 dollar pot turned into a 46 dollar pot. for an average pot like that i'll tip 2 or 3 dollars depending on the dealer. so i turned a 50 dollar pot into about a 44 dollar pot. That is BB that i lost but id say about 4 or 5 bb's that i won. Anyone who says the rake plus tips is too high to make a profit i think needs to learn how to play pookah betta.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

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It appears the dealers are chiming in.

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[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] that's classic!

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

You're giving up 1 to 2 BB/hour minimum for tips. This is a huge portion of your winnings over a long period of time. For arguments sake let's say that you play for 5 hours. In total you won $100 over the course of the session. Now let's assume you won 3 pots per hour (no idea if this is close to accurate) and on each pot you tipped $3. That means you tippped $45 over the course of the night. This has a huge impact on your winrate over a long period of time.

If you can tip this much and still win consistently over time that you should probably continue tipping as much as you do. I'm all for tipping dealers well but at the 3/6 level it really is too much to overcome.

I usually tip $1 a pot no matter what. If it is a big pot or a small pot I'll still tip $1. Sometimes if the dealer is really good or I win a really big pot I'll tip a redbird.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

I think the real thing is I'm not there to play 3/6 for serious money, I am playing it because it is the only game offered. If it were up to me obviously play higher stakes where the same sized tips would be in effect.
SEMI CHANGE OF SUBJECT: In Negreanu's blog a while back he talks about tipping in the high stakes games they play. Those guys tip 5 dollars a hand usualy (obvoiusly sometimes more) but he never said more than 100. This is in a 4/8k limit or 600/1200 NL game. Now personaly i think that is just down right stingy.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

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You know what is more funny than a young kid not thinking a dollar is a lot of money? It's a old man who has tons of life experience thinkin that a dollar is.

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You really have no clue, do you?

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think the real thing is I'm not there to play 3/6 for serious money, I am playing it because it is the only game offered. If it were up to me obviously play higher stakes where the same sized tips would be in effect.
SEMI CHANGE OF SUBJECT: In Negreanu's blog a while back he talks about tipping in the high stakes games they play. Those guys tip 5 dollars a hand usualy (obvoiusly sometimes more) but he never said more than 100. This is in a 4/8k limit or 600/1200 NL game. Now personaly i think that is just down right stingy.

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$5 a hand, 25 hands an hour (conservative)=$125 an hour.

$125 an hour x 8 hours=$1,000 a day

$1,000 a day x 5 days a week=$5,000 a week

$5,000 a week x 50 weeks a year (2 weeks vacation)= $250,000 a year to be a poker dealer.

Cheap bastards.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

If you were winning pots for 5 and 6 figure sums, you would tip five dollars? i would tip 100 minimum anytime i won a pot. Im sure I will get called an idiot for this, but if i was that fortunate financialy, i would be very generous with my money. and on top of it its the classy thing to do in my opinion. I dont see how you can argue it not being classy.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

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I dont see how you can argue it not being classy.

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See my post above.

The dealers are doing just fine with $5 a hand. That's HUGE money.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

Yeah but your numbers are a little off. What you are saying would imply that one dealer deals the "big game" 8 hours a day, five days a week for 50 weeks a year. that just obviously does not happen. and secondly, i could care less if the dealer was a millionaire, if had a lot of money id tip very very well and i guess that people dealing to me and serving me would just be taking advantage of the tipping sucker that i am.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

I'll have to agree with Brokeski on tipping in small stakes games. I usually tip at least $1 on a very small pot & several for a big pot. There are entirely too many cheapskates in cardrooms nowadays. It really pisses me off when some jackhole wins a $500 pot (NL game) from a river bluff & then tips $1...might as well keep it...cheap bastard!!!

FWIW, I too have had dealers "take it easy on me" when we're playing on their nite off. Flop the nutz & check it down with me...just for tipping good.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

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It really pisses me off when some jackhole wins a $500 pot (NL game) from a river bluff & then tips $1...

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$1=$50,000 a year.

Add that to the base, and again, the dealer's doing fine.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

do you play at a more localized casino, where there are a lot of regulars and everyone is kinda localized? i think that makes a difference because i know the dealers at the casino i play at have to support their families and they are really great people. they get paid less than min wage because 1st, its on a reservation so those laws do not apply, and secondly the casino exspects them to get tipped a certain amount and estimates that with their salery. on top of all of that i just like it when the dealer is happy, they work faster, more on tast etc because they know that if they are working well they will get tipped better by me at least.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

[ QUOTE ]
do you play at a more localized casino, where there are a lot of regulars and everyone is kinda localized? i think that makes a difference because i know the dealers at the casino i play at have to support their families and they are really great people. they get paid less than min wage because 1st, its on a reservation so those laws do not apply, and secondly the casino exspects them to get tipped a certain amount and estimates that with their salery. on top of all of that i just like it when the dealer is happy, they work faster, more on tast etc because they know that if they are working well they will get tipped better by me at least.

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I've gotten to know several of the dealer pretty well because I've been playing around there for several years. And I do live fairly close by...so I guess you could say it is a local affair.

Re: Small stakes, live tipping advice?
 

I play at a casino where tips are pooled and some of the dealers are horrendous. With that being said I very rarely tip more than $1 per win, and I don't think that would change if they kept their own tokes. If they get out 18-20 hands per down they can expect 30-40 per hour, imho that is more than adequate compensation.