Over bet shoving AA pre in stars 1050 WSOP sat
 

K heres the logic behind this. The guy who min reraised me is a fairly bad player who also thinks I'm bad. He "caught" me raising 95ss pre when i made a flush on his two pair, and i've overall been pretty active.

This is his first reraise pre, and the fact that its a min reraise over an utg raise/call makes me think he could be VERY strong. On top of that the BB whos quite short puts in like 18% of his stack and i feel even if it folds out to him he might call as well. But maybe you guys like nominal reraise better?

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t15/t30
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: t3360
UTG+1: t3575
MP1: t4135
MP2: t2005
MP3: t2405
CO: t2695
Button: t2595
SB: t5400
BB: t1235

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to t90</font>, UTG+1 calls t90 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t135)</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 raises to t180</font>, 5 folds, BB calls t150 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t405)</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises all-in t3360</font>

Re: Over bet shoving AA pre in stars 1050 WSOP sat
 

I like it. It's definitely a strong line, but a smaller four bet is going to look even stronger, I think, and would be preferable to just calling in this situation.

Re: Over bet shoving AA pre in stars 1050 WSOP sat
 

I think its fine. 4-betting this up to 700 or so probably even looks stronger than the push.

Re: Over bet shoving AA pre in stars 1050 WSOP sat
 

I don't like it.

A lot of donks will call if you make it 800 here, not having a clue about implied odds or real odds or anything, just wanting to see a flop. When you push I think you drastically increase your folding equity.

Re: Over bet shoving AA pre in stars 1050 WSOP sat
 

I'm with ansky for his exact reasons

Re: Over bet shoving AA pre in stars 1050 WSOP sat
 

I don't see him folding 99+ or AK even AQ with your read and those hands are most of his range here. Great shove because if he has AK he convinces himself you have AQ or a pair if he has a pair he convinces himself you have AK. Donk logic at it's best.

Re: Over bet shoving AA pre in stars 1050 WSOP sat
 

I like to do this sometimes against donks, I think it's fine.

Re: Over bet shoving AA pre in stars 1050 WSOP sat
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like it.

A lot of donks will call if you make it 800 here, not having a clue about implied odds or real odds or anything, just wanting to see a flop. When you push I think you drastically increase your folding equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are underestimating how much better it is to get the 3300 bet called than the 800 bet. Maybe my estimation is off, but I'd guess even if his calling range of the 800 bet is twice as wide as the 3300 bet, the 3300 bet is still more profitable.

Re: Over bet shoving AA pre in stars 1050 WSOP sat
 

Timex,

That is of course very dependant on his post flop tendencies-- which I suspect will be [censored] awful.

Re: Over bet shoving AA pre in stars 1050 WSOP sat
 

i love it.

I think that it looks weaker than a raise to 800 but even if it is perceived as being stronger and you are called half as often as you would be with an 800 chip bet (an assumption I disagree with) the shove is still much more profitable.

I also agree with Shaun about his calling range of 99+/AK and I think that calling range correlates highly with his minraising range (although I think that the minraising range might be polarized as JJ+/AK/donkSCs) and the hands that he minraises and then calls a raise to 800 with are the same as the hands he calls a shove with.

nh

Re: Over bet shoving AA pre in stars 1050 WSOP sat
 

if we make it 800 they basically call any pair they RR'd with and then check/fold most flops they missed (sometimes they stack off with QQ on a 7 high board or whatever.) if we shove, however, KK always calls, QQ sometimes does, and once in a while they call with AK or something suicidal that puts us on AK. it's usually (not always) bad to do this in a cash game but a great move vs horrible donkamenters.

Re: Over bet shoving AA pre in stars 1050 WSOP sat
 

[ QUOTE ]
if we make it 800 they basically call any pair they RR'd with and then check/fold most flops they missed (sometimes they stack off with QQ on a 7 high board or whatever.) if we shove, however, KK always calls, QQ sometimes does, and once in a while they call with AK or something suicidal that puts us on AK. it's usually (not always) bad to do this in a cash game but a great move vs horrible donkamenters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your giving random donks wayy to much credit. If Bonds read is correct, hes stacking off with TT+ AK, me thinks

Re: Over bet shoving AA pre in stars 1050 WSOP sat
 

nah that's about right in a 1K buyin

Re: Over bet shoving AA pre in stars 1050 WSOP sat
 

I think chances of getting called are like 50/50.

There are two types of donks out there

a) Fold after investing 5/6 of their stack with KK, because they think you got him
b) Call the Rest of their stack with 44 after investing 1/20, because you have AK

So it really depends against which kind of player you`re up.
Anyway, i am never reraising to x, because it looks way to strong. Either i push or call...Prolly flip a coin over it.

Re: Over bet shoving AA pre in stars 1050 WSOP sat
 

I did this is a 650 once and got called by AK. Opponent was decent. I really think if he has a pretty big pair (big enough to make this small reraise), he'll put you on AK and called, and if he has AK, he'll put you on a lower pair and probably call because there's some correlation between being willing to 3bet AK and being willing to stack off in what you think is a flip.

Re: Over bet shoving AA pre in stars 1050 WSOP sat
 

standard push

Re: Over bet shoving AA pre in stars 1050 WSOP sat
 

Given reads and history, I love it.

[ QUOTE ]


I think that it looks weaker than a raise to 800 but even if it is perceived as being stronger and you are called half as often as you would be with an 800 chip bet (an assumption I disagree with) the shove is still much more profitable.


[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly my thoughts.



Villain likes his hand right now. Let us not let him see a flop, where he might not like his hand anymore. Also, that includes a risk of him actually outfloping us, which is a very small chance, but obviously has some affect on the EV of it, because of the reverse implied odds.