Time to Go Pro?
 

I know there is enough post about people going pro but I'm seriously considering it. Any advice would be sincerely considered and appreciated.

I've been playing poker for about 3 years now. Last year I made about $100,000 during 500 hour of play at a brick & mortar. I make about $80,000 at my day job.

Some people I talk to think I'm crazy to keep my day job while others think I'm crazy to quite my job.

I don't necessarily hate my job but I don't enjoy it as much as I enjoy playing poker.

I think financially it would make sense for me to go pro. I made $100,000 last year playing part time and I know if I would focus on poker more that I can make significantly more money.

But the games seems that are getting harder. There are more and more better players. So I'm worried that eventually my edge on my opponents would shrink and the games become less profitable.

Any advice from people who have went pro? Do you enjoy the experience? Was it what you had expected?

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

1) How old are you?
2) What is your current job/occupation?
3) What limits did you win (most of) the $100,000 in?
4) Are you married?
5) Have kids?

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

I'm 30 years old and single so I don't have any financial dependent on me other than myself. I'm an engineer. I won most of my money playing 10, 25 and 25, 50 no limit.

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

What did you make the previous years, and how much did you play?

Personally I think you should try playing a bit online (at lower stakes than you play live), and use a program like Pokertracker to keep track of your play.
This would allow you to play a lot of hands in a relatively short periode of time, so you have a bigger sample size, and a better chance of analysing your play (and see the swings).

Playing a bit online would also allow you to put in some short sessions without having to go to the casino.

Have you mostly been playing friday/saturday nights? If so, are the games harder to beat at other times, where you would have to play, if you went pro?

Psychologically it can be very hard to run bad if poker is your sole source of income.

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

so you played 15,000 hands or less all of last year..

how do you know you're a winning player?
would you be fine breaking even for 6 months?

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

[ QUOTE ]
so you played 15,000 hands or less all of last year..

how do you know you're a winning player?
would you be fine breaking even for 6 months?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

[ QUOTE ]
so you played 15,000 hands or less all of last year..

how do you know you're a winning player?
would you be fine breaking even for 6 months?

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently I misjudged how few hands you actually play per hour when you play "live".

This is spot on..

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm 30 years old and single so I don't have any financial dependent on me other than myself. I'm an engineer. I won most of my money playing 10, 25 and 25, 50 no limit.

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Go for it. If you [censored] up your still employable.

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

If your resume is good enough that you think you can easily find another job in case things so bad, then you should give it a shot IMO.

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

100,000 on those stakes is nowhere near enough to go pro, you could easily hit lots of variance, way too little or a profit to know whether to go pro or not

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

Keep your good job and maintain your social status. Keep playing poker on a side, enjoy the game and make a good money.

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Keep your good job and maintain your social status. Keep playing poker on a side, enjoy the game and make a good money.

[/ QUOTE ]

you say "im a professional poker player" they hear "im a lucky degenerate"

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Keep your good job and maintain your social status. Keep playing poker on a side, enjoy the game and make a good money.

[/ QUOTE ]

you say "im a professional poker player" they hear "im a lucky degenerate"

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This is 100% true. I have a mother and two aunts who are degenerate slot players. Yet even though I only play part-time, I still hear grief about "being up all night gambling" and "how I'm a bad influence on my cousins".

We don't like it, but I think the fact remains and always will remain that no matter how much poker is on TV, they will hear "lucky degenerate".

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

what level did you make 80 G in your spare time? Congratulations.

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

Yeah, I agree.

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

That's totally the case. I like "risk surveyer."

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

500 hours live X 40 hands per hour.

Its possible that you had a hot streak over 20 K Hands. With your job you dont need the money from poker, i would play 6-12 months more and a few month Online on lower limits. Save your winnings as backup and look to your results. If anything is going fine do it than.

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Keep your good job and maintain your social status. Keep playing poker on a side, enjoy the game and make a good money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

There is another possibility. This is not an either or proposition.

Most people who make a good living at work have a job that isn't necessarily pleasant. Longish hours, significant responsibility, not necessarily doing something you love doing. And you end up in the job because you wanted to make more money than you could doing something more interesting to you, less stress/hours, and probably less pay.

How about trying to find a job you enjoy, with reasonable hours, but perhaps pays somewhat less? Then you still have security, but have the ability to play more poker and more than make up the difference. And if you have a bad month, the bills are still paid and the bankroll relatively intact.

FWIW, your sample size is also too small. This could be a heater, but obviously its a better indication than losing $100,000.

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is another possibility. This is not an either or proposition.

Most people who make a good living at work have a job that isn't necessarily pleasant. Longish hours, significant responsibility, not necessarily doing something you love doing. And you end up in the job because you wanted to make more money than you could doing something more interesting to you, less stress/hours, and probably less pay.

How about trying to find a job you enjoy, with reasonable hours, but perhaps pays somewhat less? Then you still have security, but have the ability to play more poker and more than make up the difference. And if you have a bad month, the bills are still paid and the bankroll relatively intact.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is excellent advice.

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

Thanks for all the feedback. I will take everything into consideration. How I rate my job is that from a scale of 1-10, I give it a 6. Somedays the job could be interesting and somedays it can be downright boring. I don't necessary hate my job OR jump out of bed every morning to go to work.

How I rate my poker skills is that I feel that I'm among the best players playing in my local card room. People may feel that I'm egotistic by making this statement. My track records speak for itself, and other players really do not want me to sit at their table. With that said, I still see error in my game which I could improve on. I honestly feel that if I focus my attention to poker (fix my errors) I could easily make $300,000/yr. My current job requires alot of my attention due to the complex nature of the job. This leaves me tired to focus on my poker games say on a Friday night after spending 8 hours at work.

I'm leaning toward making the transition to go pro. I figure I'll give it a chance now so I really don't have anyting to lose. I don't mind being broke because I grew up poor (food stamps, free lunch). If it doesn't work out I think I can get a job back in engineering, maybe will need to take a paycut ~$65,000/yr or so. By making the transition, at least than I finally do it and stop wondering about playing pro.

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

Sounds like the right state of mind to me, and it also sounds like you are a pretty smart guy and, if it didnt work out, you could find plenty to fall back on. Good luck man.

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

we all wish you good luck. we'll be happy to hear how things have worked out in a couple months.

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

I agree with this. A lot. One problem if you have done well playing serious poker in your spare time is that it can be difficult to work for other people. What about starting your own business?

Jeff

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

Jeff,

I have thought about starting my own business and have been looking around. The problem is that I do not have a good business idea. I've been also looking at investing in real estate and aftering crunching some numbers on a few properties realized that the real estate market may not be better than investing in stocks/mutual funds.

p.s. Jeff, I have read numerous of your posts and respect your opinion.

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

Remember, playing many hours a week for a living will kill your excitement for the game. Wait until you go on a prolonged losing streak. It sounds like you haven't yet but it will come...and you will think all heaven and earth are against you.

Keep playing on the side and invest this "free money" in real estate, stocks or mutual funds or even a business. In ten years your money will be working hard for you while you are drinking Corona's on the beach instead of grinding it out with all the other fat stinky poker players. Then you can play the higher limits on the side... and get all the chicks like Antonio E.!!! [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

where do you play?

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

[ QUOTE ]
so you played 15,000 hands or less all of last year..

how do you know you're a winning player?
would you be fine breaking even for 6 months?

[/ QUOTE ]

you could easily be a losing player, this is too little of a sample, good luck if you hit a tough stretch

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

Thanks for the comments JackHigh. I understand that the excitement may wear off as I play more. I have gone through a long stretch where I broke even for six months before. I know what you mean by feeling the whole world is against you. There was about a 30 hour stretch in there where I didn't hit a full house, flush or straight.

I have played poker on the side for awhile. I have invested in stocks/mutual funds and is looking into real estate now. I play in the highest limits already in my cardroom. I took a trip to Vegas and the highest limit they had was also 25, 50 (at the Bellagio)

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

There is a guy on FTP named FiftyOuts playing 200nl all the time, is that you?

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Jeff,

I have thought about starting my own business and have been looking around. The problem is that I do not have a good business idea. I've been also looking at investing in real estate and aftering crunching some numbers on a few properties realized that the real estate market may not be better than investing in stocks/mutual funds.

p.s. Jeff, I have read numerous of your posts and respect your opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]


i hope youre not saying that investing in the stock market is a poor investment..

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Remember, playing many hours a week for a living will kill your excitement for the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Most people who make a good living at work have a job that isn't necessarily pleasant. Longish hours, significant responsibility, not necessarily doing something you love doing. And you end up in the job because you wanted to make more money than you could doing something more interesting to you, less stress/hours, and probably less pay.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly how I felt - while playing poker! I took a short shot around 18 month ago, when I had the chance to play poker fulltime. Despite all motivation and enthusiasm: After only very few weeks it felt boring as hell (i was playing online). And running bad doesnt add much thrill to it. Once you understand the deeper meaning of the word "variance" poker gets less exciting. Instead my real job was suddenly much more exciting.
I ended up not playing poker at all for around 15 month ( ok, i played three times). Now I started to play more again, but poker is not my top priority. It is something I do, when all other things are taken care of, despite making more money with it than with most other things.

Asking a question like you did usually means no, dont do it, but who am I to give you advice. You already made your decision, right?

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

Well I feel the way YOU felt about it unfoldable is not neccessarily how others would feel. It probably would for me, im just saying. I dont think 50outs should judge based on others personal opinions on how they felt.

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

I didnt intend to give advice. Its more like a trip report. The situation he finds himself in is just so familiar to me. And giving up an $80k job + $100k poker winnings to (maybe) make $300k playing fulltime doesnt sound like a great idea to me. And yes, the games have changed.
When i think about it, i have to admit that i give a [censored] how he decides, i am not emotionally or otherwise involved. Just offering a view.
Wishing the best anyway

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

Winning 25 or 30 stacks in a year isn't that much.

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

DON'T DO IT. Let me explain.

(1) 80K salary is guaranteed. 100K poker isn't
(2) work history is VITAL on a resume, "pro poker player" on a resume is a DEATH SENTENCE
(3) a real job keeps you grounded, in normal social circles. Poker involves living in a strange world of anti-social people, degenerates, arrogant maniacs. Keep this involvement part-time. Don't let it consume you.
(4) A job provides a service to the world. Can you really say the same about a poker player?

Anyhow...I would suggest taking a SEBATICLE from work. Don't quit. Take an extended vacation. Leave without pay. Don't burn bridges. Make sure you can return to work. Perhaps take a three month hiatus and see how things go. Ask yourself this: Do you want to be a pro poker player when you are 50? Because, good luck getting a job after you've killed your work history. "Pro Poker Player" to most people (bosses) means "DEGENERATE GAMBLER".

Keep it fun. Keep it profitable. Keep it part-time. That's my advice.

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

screw all this 'social status stuff.' you make 80k a year and i'm assuming full benifits. keep your day job just for the sanitiy. take your poker earnings and invest it, keep both jobs going and just retire early (say, 40-45) and play poker from there if it still profitable/what you want to do.

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

[ QUOTE ]
screw all this 'social status stuff.' you make 80k a year and i'm assuming full benifits. keep your day job just for the sanitiy. take your poker earnings and invest it, keep both jobs going and just retire early (say, 40-45) and play poker from there if it still profitable/what you want to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

definitely the winner. Use poker to make a bunch of money to let you retire real early, then just keep playing responsible poker.

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
screw all this 'social status stuff.' you make 80k a year and i'm assuming full benifits. keep your day job just for the sanitiy. take your poker earnings and invest it, keep both jobs going and just retire early (say, 40-45) and play poker from there if it still profitable/what you want to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

definitely the winner. Use poker to make a bunch of money to let you retire real early, then just keep playing responsible poker.

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't you guys find it hard to work a full time job and play a lot of poker on the side though?

I'm struggling with these decisions myself right now. Basically I make $60K CDN per year ($54K US) and in the last six months I've made $35K USD in my spare time playing online poker (taking it more seriously as a semi pro since then playing 20 hours per week). I also hate my job and don't feel like it has a long term future, but it does pay decently considering I'm just out of university.

Realistically it would be great if I could keep making $60K per year each from my job and poker. But that doesn't leave me enough spare time to do anything else. So right now I'm leaning towards playing poker full time for awhile. But at the same time I know that I don't have any future in that. I'm a solid winner at $200NL, but that doesn't exactly make me an all star in the big picture.

If I thought poker was always going to be the same as it is now then I would do it though. My girlfriend actually plays higher stakes than me full time (even though I taught her to play) and she makes more than anyone I know. So I've got a bit of jealousy there.

Re: Time to Go Pro?
 

[ QUOTE ]

(1) 80K salary is guaranteed. 100K poker isn't
(2) work history is VITAL on a resume, "pro poker player" on a resume is a DEATH SENTENCE
(3) a real job keeps you grounded, in normal social circles. Poker involves living in a strange world of anti-social people, degenerates, arrogant maniacs. Keep this involvement part-time. Don't let it consume you.
(4) A job provides a service to the world. Can you really say the same about a poker player?

[/ QUOTE ]

(1) Probably true. However money isn't everything. If there's a time to go for it, it's now or possibly never. That said, I don't think earning 100k/year from online poker for the normally gifted folks is going to last very much longer.

(2) Fake it then. Nobody's ever going to notice.

(3) A psychologist is around people who're going through the roof with crazy [censored] every day. A policeman potentially puts his life in danger every day he goes to work. There are pros and cons to being a poker player and being anti-social isn't the worst con IMO. You are def. able to spread things out with the easy time schedule of a poker player.

(4) I read this argument every single time in an thread like this and can only think to myself: Wow, they must have great jobs, really making a difference in this world. The truth however is, that you are 100% replacable for no loss whatsoever in about everything you do. That accounts for probably 99% of all people, so that shouldn't be a concernt.


Just my opinion, of course.