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- - Three of a Kind (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=377223)

Opponent was tight aggressive, stats at 20/10. I put their range on any over pair, and figured I should be passive to catch any over betting trying to protect against the flush draw on the board, figured that's what they would possibly put me on. The opponent is not in a blind so I'm 99+ percent sure I'm not seeing another 2 here. This hand confused me at the time and I'd like to hear some thoughts. I figure my equity is good against a range including over pairs, but how often will I see an overpair here with the limped pot? I don't see QQ KK AA JJ just calling. Please give me some feedback on the hand.

Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

saw flop|saw showdown

CO ($18.90)
Button ($64.30)
SB ($67.90)
Hero ($43.85)
UTG ($50.75)
UTG+1 ($20.40)
MP1 ($23.25)
MP2 ($49.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, 4 folds, Button calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero checks.

Flop: ($1.75) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $1.5, UTG folds, Button raises to $6.25, Hero calls $4.75.

Turn: ($14.25) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $14.25, Hero calls $14.25.

River: ($42.75) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $43.3 (All-In), Hero calls $22.85 (All-In).

Final Pot: $108.90

Re: Three of a Kind

Any reads on his postflop play?

Re: Three of a Kind

The strange thing about the hand was the double pot sized bet on the flop. I don't think I've run into that before and it through me for a loop. Once I call there I think I'm pretty much committed to the hand, I don't see any reasonable draws out there and over cards aren't really scary either. Maybe the question I should be asking is

Do you call this flop raise and why?

Re: Three of a Kind

I'm looking to understand the thought process here, could you explain?

Re: Three of a Kind

He puts you on a two after your flop call, has you whiped and extracts your stack with his 77.

Re: Three of a Kind

[ QUOTE ]
I'm looking to understand the thought process here, could you explain?

[/ QUOTE ]

If he has a draw I want to charge him to hit it, if he has a 7/overpair I want to get as much money as possible in before a card that kills our action hits

Re: Three of a Kind

[ QUOTE ]
The strange thing about the hand was the double pot sized bet on the flop. I don't think I've run into that before and it through me for a loop. Once I call there I think I'm pretty much committed to the hand, I don't see any reasonable draws out there and over cards aren't really scary either. Maybe the question I should be asking is

Do you call this flop raise and why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain is only making a Pot Sized Raise not a double pot sized bet...

3 bet shove OTT...You will see an overpair,7x and a FD often enough to be +EV..The only hand I fear here is a better 2(A2s)...

Re: Three of a Kind

What's his aggression on flop in general? If he's a solid TAG, he might have you dominated or flopped full, if he is just super aggro, he could have NFD, top pair, small overpair (88-TT) [though I'm not sure why he wouldn't raise these on the button]. I don't think you can ever fold flop unless you had a mad sick read on the guy.

I don't encounter overbets like this often either, it's probably either a hand trying to protect itself or a bluff. Then by turn I doubt he's bluffing that much, so its prolly a hand trying to protect itself like the small overpair/top pair. If he's real aggro you might see overcards+FD or NFD.

Play looks fine to me, dunno if I would've check/shoved turn because I don't want to fold out top pair, so calling down looks good.

Re: Three of a Kind

People limping on the button always confuses me. I would like to know the stats you have on him.

Re: Three of a Kind

"He puts you on a two after your flop call, has you whipped and extracts your stack with his 77."

You are saying the villian will have a 77 every time here? Just want to make sure I understand that you are saying his range is precisely 77 here.

Re: Three of a Kind

"What's his aggression on flop in general? If he's a solid TAG, he might have you dominated or flopped full"

Don't have the stats right in front of me but typical winning TAG stats if I remember right.

"I don't encounter overbets like this often either, it's probably either a hand trying to protect itself or a bluff. Then by turn I doubt he's bluffing that much, so its prolly a hand trying to protect itself like the small overpair/top pair. If he's real aggro you might see overcards+FD or NFD."

Knowing TAG stats you still think that's the case or is this most often whipping me?

"Play looks fine to me, dunno if I would've check/shoved turn because I don't want to fold out top pair, so calling down looks good."

Yeah I thought I might be getting killed but shoving makes no sense to me, I might be folding out worse hands and probably am not getting anything I beat to fold.

Re: Three of a Kind

My real fear here is another 2 (A2s?) or a 77 .... OTB he would surely raise here with an overpair.

given the way its gone, What am I beating...... He just HAS to put you on a 2 here coming from the BB, and Yet, it makes not one bit of difference to him *sigh*

Problem is after calling the turn, your committed really to call the half pot bet....... 90% of the time I think you will see A2s here

Re: Three of a Kind

I think the cliche holds true: don't go broke in an unraised pot. This guy could have limped an overpair, but aren't you screaming that you have a 2? I think he has a better 2 here. I would have hated it but, call flop, fold turn.

Re: Three of a Kind

[ QUOTE ]
3 bet shove OTT...You will see an overpair,7x and a FD often enough to be +EV..The only hand I fear here is a better 2(A2s)...

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about an overpair, but there are a lot of potential FDs or 87s-like hands he can have that I think make it +ev. If he has 77 or A2s, tough luck.

Re: Three of a Kind

"I think the cliche holds true: don't go broke in an unraised pot. This guy could have limped an overpair, but aren't you screaming that you have a 2? I think he has a better 2 here. I would have hated it but, call flop, fold turn."

That's what I hate about this hand, I'm out of position and basically announcing I have a 2. But I don't see any other way to play it unless I can put them on exactly 77, but anything that's beating me has me at their mercy. You really see a TAG limping with a 2 on the button? They'd at least raise to try to steal I would think, what good is limping with a two?

Is this a case of reverse implied odds where you just lay it down? How often will an overpair like KK AA JJ QQ just limp from the button? Not very often at these limits from a TAG. If not, that leaves maybe 10 10 and 9 9 as hands? Would they play it this aggressively? Would a flush draw play this aggressively with an ace in their hand? I'm just asking because I don't really know how often that would happen, I'd say rarely. I'm trying to figure out if you put an opponent on specifically a flopped set here given how the action goes down.