Ugly flop
 

Villain is running like 28/23/4 over a smallish sample. This is the 2nd orbit in a row I've rr'd his co open, he folded the first time.

I'm running ~22/18 and have been running pretty bad against a 70/1/1 super fish that I've been isolating alot. Most every hand has gone he limps, I raise, he calls, I cb flop, he calls checked down an he wins w/ some raggy pair or A high or we check down from the flop and the same thing happens. So my image prolly isn't great.

Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $216.05
BB: $199.40
UTG: $530.45
<font color="black">Villain (CO): $242</font>
<font color="black">Hero (BTN): $194.60</font>

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Villain raises to $8</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $24</font>, 2 folds, Villain calls $16

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($48) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Villain checks,

Eh?

Paul

Re: Ugly flop
 

Ugh, I absolutely hate this spot Paul. I think it may be weak, but I check behind here and wait for a safe turn to bet at the pot. You obv. want to get to showdown as cheaply as possible, and even a min-check raise by villain is enough to get you out of the hand.

I suck at these spots though, so I'd also like to hear others' thoughts.

Re: Ugly flop
 

I know a site where an internet pro suggests to bet something like $16 in these spots. But I'm not sure whether it's a really good advice. I didn't try it by myself for a long time.

Re: Ugly flop
 

Your image is bad, you've just rr him, you have an overpair, and nobody ever flops flushes/straights in rr pots. I'm betting $36 and calling a shove for the reasons mentioned.

Re: Ugly flop
 

I tend to agree with Novles. If we had a good image I could see why we may want to consider checking the turn (I'm not saying I would do so, but I'd think about it). However, our image being what it is, IMO requires us to value bet this flop and most likely get it all-in if need be.

Re: Ugly flop
 

i usually bet here and call down unless a diamond, J, T, or 6 comes off. This is a good spot for villain to put you to the test with like TxTd or something. I don't think he can have a straight, and there aren't many flushes. In other words, imo his range is heavily tilted towards pairs, esp worse overpairs.

Re: Ugly flop
 

what about checkign flop and getting it in on a blank turn? (or betting a blank turn if checked to). higher equity, no real loss if the 4th [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] hits, etc.

Re: Ugly flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
what about checkign flop and getting it in on a blank turn? (or betting a blank turn if checked to). higher equity, no real loss if the 4th [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] hits, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this. I think were gonna get c/r a ton here which sucks balls for our hand

Re: Ugly flop
 

Neither b/f:ing or b/c:ing particularly appealed to me so I checked. Not great reasoning but there you go.

Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $216.05
BB: $199.40
UTG: $530.45
<font color="black">Villain (CO): $242</font>
<font color="black">Hero (BTN): $194.60</font>

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Villain raises to $8</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $24</font>, 2 folds, Villain calls $16

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($48) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Villain checks, Hero checks

<font color="black">Turn:</font> ($48) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Villain bets $31</font>,

Now what?

Paul

Re: Ugly flop
 

$88

Re: Ugly flop
 

Agree with tufat. Raise here and be ready to call the shove.

Villian is probably sitting on TT or JJ - testing the waters here with this bet. If your line is correct, neither of them can be diamonds as we could have expected him to lean out on the flop.

Your raise will cause pretty high fold equity.

Re: Ugly flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
$88

[/ QUOTE ]

That's way to weak. $93 is much betta.

Re: Ugly flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
$88

[/ QUOTE ]

r u trying to get a cheap showdown or is it for value or r u trying to induce a bluff.

Re: Ugly flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
$88

[/ QUOTE ]

r u trying to get a cheap showdown or is it f
or value or r u trying to induce a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Value

Re: Ugly flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
$88

[/ QUOTE ]

r u trying to get a cheap showdown or is it f
or value or r u trying to induce a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Value

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume we're calling when he pushes then?

Re: Ugly flop
 

I played a hand like this the other day where i checked the flop, then minraised the turn with the intention of folding to a shove. Would that be terrible?

Admittedly when I did it, it was against a fairly passive fish.

Re: Ugly flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
nobody ever flops flushes/straights in rr pots

[/ QUOTE ]

you must run really good

Re: Ugly flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
I assume we're calling when he pushes then?

[/ QUOTE ]

are we really? is he gonne bet/3-bet the turn here w/a weaker overpair or the lone A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. i know the pot is big, but how often are we really ahead if he 3-bet shoves the turn?

Re: Ugly flop
 

unless he has a set, you're probably ahead. i'd probably make it $90

Re: Ugly flop
 

Thanks for the comments. I thought villains turn bet looked alot like Adx/TdT type hands so I potted it and obv called a push getting a bajillion to 1.

Still don't feel great about this hand even though alot of the thoughts seemed to go along w/ mine and how I played it. I may be being a bit results orientated though.

Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $216.05
BB: $199.40
UTG: $530.45
<u>CO: $242</u>
<u>Hero (BTN): $194.60</u>

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $8</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $24</font>, 2 folds, CO calls $16

<font color="black">Flop:</font> ($51) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
CO checks, Hero checks

<font color="black">Turn:</font> ($51) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">CO bets $31</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $141</font>, <font color="red">CO raises all-in to $187</font>, Hero calls all-in for $29.60
Uncalled bet of $47.40 returned to CO

<font color="black">River:</font> ($392.20) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 2 All-In)

Pot Size: $392.20

CO had 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (a flush, Ace high)
Hero had K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (two pairs, Kings and Nines)

Paul