Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

this is according to SI, who says he will no longer negotiate with the Twins until he hits the open market.

"Santana, whose four-year, $40 million contract expires at the end of the 2008 season, was reportedly offered a two-year extension at around $18 million per season with a club option for 2011.

The offer fell way short of Barry Zito's seven-year, $126 million contract from the Giants which has seemling set the market for top pitchers. "

granted, this is still a ways off, but his FA deal might be the next ARod contract. he will be 29 when he becomes a FA, and is obviously far better than Zito. far better than Dice K, who the Red Sox just got for 6 years for $100m.

of course, Johan will have to make it through 2 more years w/o injury to get a 5 year, $150m type of deal, but I think it could happen.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

Thank god the Twins are still going to have another chance at this. Hopefully they'll feel like spending some cash after we dump Hunter after this year.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

Given their budget constraints the Twins would be stupid to pay big money to Santana.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

Yeah, them having a chance pretty much depends on him being willing to sign for some ridiculous amount that is still quite a bit under his market value.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

Hunter's gone after this year, maybe at mid-season.

Doubtful they sign Johan, sigh. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] They just can't afford it as he'll get way more than Zito.

They'll lock up Mauer, Mourneau and Nathan though hopefully.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

With the money Zito got, I can't even begin to imagine what kind of money Santana is going to get.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

Hope Johan likes the big apple.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hope Johan likes the big apple.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hope the Yankees have alot of prospects mid-season next year.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hope Johan likes the big apple.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hope the Yankees have alot of prospects mid-season next year.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, i think the twins are going to try to cut their losses and pull a sign-and-trade to the highest bidder.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

They really should trade him this off-season.

Its so hard to tell what the market will look like two years from now, but I think if he was a free agent right now he would have been able to get something like 25 for 6-7 years.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

Aren't they getting a new stadium within the near future?

Huge back-loaded contract?

I can see it happening.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

ZOMG ROCCO BALDELLI AKI IWAMURA AND PROSPECTS FOR JOHAN MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

Given that the Twinkies have are a really good baseball team it doesn't make much sense to trade Santana at the end of the season. They are getting outstanding value from him and they have a decent shot going to the World Series. I think you have take that shot and then let him go at the end of his contract.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
Given that the Twinkies have are a really good baseball team it doesn't make much sense to trade Santana at the end of the season. They are getting outstanding value from him and they have a decent shot going to the World Series. I think you have take that shot and then let him go at the end of his contract.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess it depends what they could get. But if they could get some major-league ready young talent, which should be possible for a creative GM, they could both contend the next year and manage to monetize Santana. If you are a team like the Twins that depends on a steady infusion of cheap young talent, then I don't think you can pass up that opportunity. I think what your As have done with some of their players is a good model for this.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

Boris, precisely, I see no reason why they would trade him until at least half way through the 2008 season if things looked bad.

This could also be a move by him to just get more as a FA. Doesn't mean he won't resign with the Twins. This also seems waaaaaay to early, SI is probably just rollin with a rumor, being the nice POS rag they are.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

As a Twin's fan this news ruined my day. DON'T GO JOHAN WE LOVE YOU!!!

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

If they could get the same kind of value they did on the Pierzynski trade on a trade for Johan, they could probably win the WS like 10 years in a row... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
As a Twin's fan this news ruined my day. DON'T GO JOHAN WE LOVE YOU!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree

also this potential situation, is why I was really mad with the Twin's inability to improve the team in the offseason, the window could be much smaller than they thought

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
If they could get the same kind of value they did on the Pierzynski trade on a trade for Johan, they could probably win the WS like 10 years in a row... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Lincecum, Cain, Peter McGowan's daughters, and half the revenue of Pac Bell Park sounds about right.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

SL - can you imagine the Giants pitching staff today if they still had Santana, Bonser and Nathan? My god they would be nasty.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

Santana denies SI report

[ QUOTE ]
Johan Santana today said he has not cut off negotiations with the Twins over a contract extension and said he did not know of the team making a two-year extension offer. His words directly refuted a story today by si.com.....

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
SL - can you imagine the Giants pitching staff today if they still had Santana, Bonser and Nathan? My god they would be nasty.

[/ QUOTE ]

And Liriano gasdnkjhnsdklhnadgjlsdijhsdklhnsdkljhsdj GOD SABEAN IS SO DUMB

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

Dice-K didn't get signed for $100M, he got $50M over 6.

Johan's money. 2008 Yankees rotation, jamone!

All they have to do is buy Carpenter and Webb at the same time... dig those pockets deep, Georgie.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
Dice-K didn't get signed for $100M, he got $50M over 6.

[/ QUOTE ]

technically correct but barely relevant to the op

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dice-K didn't get signed for $100M, he got $50M over 6.

[/ QUOTE ]

technically correct but barely relevant to the op

[/ QUOTE ]

It's clearly relevant. He's not getting $18.7M a year, which would be something like top 10 salary per year, he's getting <$9M, which isn't top 50. After all, this thread is about comparing salaries.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
Santana denies SI report

[ QUOTE ]
Johan Santana today said he has not cut off negotiations with the Twins over a contract extension and said he did not know of the team making a two-year extension offer. His words directly refuted a story today by si.com.....

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

Why can't it be about dollars spent by the team that has the player?

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

Dice-K didn't see the original $50M or whatever. He signed for about 50, not 100.

Not relevant to Santana. People just like saying and typing about DICE K OMG!

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
After all, this thread is about comparing salaries.

[/ QUOTE ]

no

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dice-K didn't get signed for $100M, he got $50M over 6.

[/ QUOTE ]

technically correct but barely relevant to the op

[/ QUOTE ]

It's clearly relevant. He's not getting $18.7M a year, which would be something like top 10 salary per year, he's getting <$9M, which isn't top 50. After all, this thread is about comparing salaries.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the Sox didn't need to pay the fee to DM's previous team, then DM would've gotten the money. The full package is the appropriate amount to use for this.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dice-K didn't get signed for $100M, he got $50M over 6.

[/ QUOTE ]

technically correct but barely relevant to the op

[/ QUOTE ]

It's clearly relevant. He's not getting $18.7M a year, which would be something like top 10 salary per year, he's getting <$9M, which isn't top 50. After all, this thread is about comparing salaries.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the Sox didn't need to pay the fee to DM's previous team, then DM would've gotten the money. The full package is the appropriate amount to use for this.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if DM was a free agent from the Rockies, the Red Sox would have had to spend $100M+ for him?

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

Yeah, that doesn't make sense. If they didn't have to pay the $50M to talk to the team, then they would not have paid $50M to talk to the team.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, that doesn't make sense. If they didn't have to pay the $50M to talk to the team, then they would not have paid $50M to talk to the team.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would concede that if it was more of an open market the bidding would have gone higher than $50M, but you can't just assume it goes up above 100M.

More like 60-70 probably. There really isn't a way to tell.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

If you don't think Dice-K would've gotten 15M+ per season on the open market you are crazy.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

Also consider that 50 of the 100 million the Sox paid doesn't affect their cap. Unless I'm mistaken.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also consider that 50 of the 100 million the Sox paid doesn't affect their cap. Unless I'm mistaken.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's why he cost the Sox slightly less than had they signed a US player for the same $100m. if he was a US FA he would have gone for close to the same $100m/6, the Red Sox just created an accounting trick by not having to account for $50m of it under the cap. but they still had to pay it. the avoided cap penalty was relevent to the Sox, but wouldn't have been for most other teams.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dice-K didn't get signed for $100M, he got $50M over 6.

[/ QUOTE ]

technically correct but barely relevant to the op

[/ QUOTE ]

It's clearly relevant. He's not getting $18.7M a year, which would be something like top 10 salary per year, he's getting <$9M, which isn't top 50. After all, this thread is about comparing salaries.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the Sox didn't need to pay the fee to DM's previous team, then DM would've gotten the money. The full package is the appropriate amount to use for this.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if DM was a free agent from the Rockies, the Red Sox would have had to spend $100M+ for him?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Either that, or the Red Sox dramatically misjudged the market and way overpaid for him in aggregate. Which happens in free agency as well. Either way, it seems likely they would've paid a similar amount.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dice-K didn't get signed for $100M, he got $50M over 6.

[/ QUOTE ]

technically correct but barely relevant to the op

[/ QUOTE ]

COMPLETELY relevant. Dice-K 'got' $100 million because he allowed the Red Sox to expand their brand to the Japanese market. It drives me nuts that people keep sighting the $100 million. They'll be making most of it back in shirt/hat sales etc., more than they would have with any other player.

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dice-K didn't get signed for $100M, he got $50M over 6.

[/ QUOTE ]

technically correct but barely relevant to the op

[/ QUOTE ]

COMPLETELY relevant. Dice-K 'got' $100 million because he allowed the Red Sox to expand their brand to the Japanese market. It drives me nuts that people keep sighting the $100 million. They'll be making most of it back in shirt/hat sales etc., more than they would have with any other player.

[/ QUOTE ]

you don't understand MLB revenue sharing.

they will make some money back from incremental revenue from their own efforts in Japan, but intelligent estimates put this at around 2-3m PA, at most.

here is a good article which breaks it down

Re: Johan breaks off talks with Twins - to be FA in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
Aren't they getting a new stadium within the near future?

Huge back-loaded contract?

I can see it happening.

[/ QUOTE ]

both the mets and yankees are getting a new stadium in 2009. the war between the two teams to have him as their opening day starter will probably get ridiculous if it gets that far