Two Plus Two Newer Archives

Two Plus Two Newer Archives (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/index.php)

- Small Stakes Shorthanded (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24)

- - Our PS winrates (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=375097)

Specifically comparing 3/6 to 5/10. I myself have certainly run well at 3/6 getting 2bb/100. But am running -1.5bb/100 over a smaller sample size at 5/10. While I can tell the competition is somewhat stronger at 5/10 I can not help but feel that I am only a marginal winner there who got some bad beats in the massive pots. Any other thoughts? Im beginning to think I should just stay at 3/6 for my mental health at least. Do other people here have strong sustained success at 5/10? I play a 24/17 style for what its worth, varying based on the table between 22/16 and 27/20.

Re: Our PS winrates

variance, this is real obvious, surprised u even need to post it, play for a long amount of time then check on stats.

Re: Our PS winrates

what is long?

people say: play 10k hands than post you stats her for review

others say: play 100k to eliminate swings...

I will post some datamined charts and i would really like to discuss:
"if you can beat the game"

Re: Our PS winrates

[ QUOTE ]
Specifically comparing 3/6 to 5/10. I myself have certainly run well at 3/6 getting 2bb/100. But am running -1.5bb/100 over a smaller sample size at 5/10. While I can tell the competition is somewhat stronger at 5/10 I can not help but feel that I am only a marginal winner there who got some bad beats in the massive pots. Any other thoughts? Im beginning to think I should just stay at 3/6 for my mental health at least. Do other people here have strong sustained success at 5/10? I play a 24/17 style for what its worth, varying based on the table between 22/16 and 27/20.

[/ QUOTE ]In the past, I've found the psychological difference between 3/6 and 5/10 pretty daunting - is it possible that at 5/10 it is more difficult for you to see the chips as merely betting units?

Re: Our PS winrates

My winrate at 5/10 is about 1 over 60k hands. It was 2.2 over 35k. If I always played my best I'm pretty sure I could be at 2.5 or so. It is amazing how many pretty large mistakes I make because I'm either not focusing or because I'm tilting. I forget preflop action a couple times per 1k hands and end up donking AJ on like Q42 into a 3-bettor, or I 3-bet bluff the river or something. Really big mistakes, yet I'm still at 1.

Re: Our PS winrates

Perhaps I should define my question a little better, is the increased variance at 5/10 worth it. As I have seen a lot of people talk about how badly they run at 5/10 but rarely so at 3/6.

Perhaps I only ask this because I have not had the 100BB upswing to make up for the downswings. As always I accept the variance as being the most likely culprit, but it does seem like many of the posters here have had issues at 5/10 with dramatic downswings that are not seen in 3/6.

Re: Our PS winrates

I see two people in this threat:

one is running at -1BB/100 at 3-6 for like 40k hands
one is running at -0.2 BB/100 at 5-10 for like 30k hands
sadly one of both is me [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

one of the most feared people out of the stars regular threat is running at -0.7BB/100 at 5-10 for 150k hands

And I always promote my opinion the nobody can beat multitabling stars (only way to play several 10k hands within a reasonable timeframe) low limit (up to 5-10) since the partypoker close from more than 1BB.

but prove me wrong and I will buy you a beer at WSOP in june in vegas

Re: Our PS winrates

[ QUOTE ]
I see two people in this threat:

one is running at -1BB/100 at 3-6 for like 40k hands
one is running at -0.2 BB/100 at 5-10 for like 30k hands
sadly one of both is me [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

one of the most feared people out of the stars regular threat is running at -0.7BB/100 at 5-10 for 150k hands

And I always promote my opinion the nobody can beat multitabling stars (only way to play several 10k hands within a reasonable timeframe) low limit (up to 5-10) since the partypoker close from more than 1BB.

but prove me wrong and I will buy you a beer at WSOP in june in vegas

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm running at ~-0.6BB/100 this year [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

but been multi-tabling carelessly at times and playing so bad postflop that I don't believe the game can't be beaten fairly easily by anyone who plays well and makes a half-decent stab at table selection (even me).

chez

Re: Our PS winrates

[ QUOTE ]
what is long?

people say: play 10k hands than post you stats her for review

others say: play 100k to eliminate swings...

I will post some datamined charts and i would really like to discuss:
"if you can beat the game"

[/ QUOTE ]

You need 30,000 hands at a level before knowing your general winrate, and 100,000 hands at a level before knowing your specific winrate.

Re: Our PS winrates

I'm at 1.21 BB/100 over 32,000 hands of 3/6 since January at Stars, but I don't know if that's a significant enough sample size. And, as I've said before, 5/10 has wrecked me up. I think I've gotten better, though, and wouldn't mind taking another stab at it.

I don't know how you guys play so many hands so fast. I two-table 3/6, get 1000 hands in (with good table selection), and am totally beat/tired of poker.

Re: Our PS winrates

Are the days of 4 tabling for 1bb/100 gone? I play on FT/UB/ABS and was at 1bb/100 at 60k hands this year at 2/4-3/6 , now I have 80k hands and a little above breakeven.

Profit at the small stakes comes mostly from RB/bonus and those are getting worse...at least from ABS and UB.

Maybe time to start playing fewer tables at a higher limit and table / seat select well....but when I look at WR for 5/10 at Stars I can't imagine playing 2 tables and being happy with .5bb-1bb/100?

Re: Our PS winrates

well if you 2 table you do 200 hands per hour = about 4.8 BB rake per hour if you are platin I gues you get like 23% RB (rough estimation)

so your true winrate is 1.21 + 4.8*0.23 = 2.3 BB/hour = about 14$ per hour

but if you 6 to 8 table and dont win anything in the long run you get supernova easy (and some steps to elite).
= 27% RB and about 600 hands per hour
true winrate = 600*2.4/100*0.27 = 3.9 BB/hour = 23.5$

Re: Our PS winrates

[ QUOTE ]
I see two people in this threat:

one is running at -1BB/100 at 3-6 for like 40k hands
one is running at -0.2 BB/100 at 5-10 for like 30k hands
sadly one of both is me [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

one of the most feared people out of the stars regular threat is running at -0.7BB/100 at 5-10 for 150k hands

And I always promote my opinion the nobody can beat multitabling stars (only way to play several 10k hands within a reasonable timeframe) low limit (up to 5-10) since the partypoker close from more than 1BB.

but prove me wrong and I will buy you a beer at WSOP in june in vegas

[/ QUOTE ]
Here's an old 5/10 screenshot of mine. Pretty sure I was averaging between 3 and 4 tables at a time.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...10lifetime.png

Re: Our PS winrates

[ QUOTE ]
Are the days of 4 tabling for 1bb/100 gone?

[/ QUOTE ]I really don't think so. The key is maintaining awareness for when a good table goes bad - since the good players are looking for the same chooks you are, you could look up and see that the table is all of a sudden averaging 27/20 = no fun.

Re: Our PS winrates

meh while losing at a small rate over a large sample could be variance i think it's imporant to consider the fact that you are making small mistakes that have added up over a long sample.

TBH I've found these threads shocking. Not that I crush or anything like that but it was like one day EVERYBODY just decided to post that they weren't winning. I thought everybody was like 1bb winners trying to get to 2/2.5.

For a 4 week stretch through january and some of february i was a big winner at HU and a marginal loser (like -.8bb/100) at 6max. Not everything is variance. I sucked at 6max, plain and simple. Not that I still don't suck but I got a lot better when I decided I did suck. I think I'm playing really well now but we'll see what I have to say about that in another 3 months.

Sometimes stuff that seems OK, like 3-betting light on the button because you do that sometimes, or c/c'ing down A hi, is sometimes just totally wrong. Now I get in pots with players who make like standard/good plays but I know that the play in particular vs. me is like REALLY good or REALLY bad. From his end, he just got unlucky or the hand was w/e but if you think about it, it wasn't and is just like spewage.

I'm not trying to come off as like arrogant here I'm not a big winner in the stars 5/10 game or anything like that just sharing some stuff that I've been working on lately that has really helped my game.

Re: Our PS winrates

[ QUOTE ]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...10lifetime.png

[/ QUOTE ]

I am in vegas from june 18th to end of the month (I'm staying in some kind of rental villa with other guys)
where can I meet you to delivery you beer (or do you cheat and the screen is from before party closure?)

I can also bring you a nice german beer other when I come with my "lederhose" to the WSOP

Re: Our PS winrates

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what is long?

people say: play 10k hands than post you stats her for review

others say: play 100k to eliminate swings...

I will post some datamined charts and i would really like to discuss:
"if you can beat the game"

[/ QUOTE ]

You need 30,000 hands at a level before knowing your general winrate, and 100,000 hands at a level before knowing your specific winrate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Such a crock.

Assume 18BB/100 standard deviation, which I understand is normal if you work it out right. Then over a 100,000 hand sample your standard error is
18/sqrt(1000) = 0.57

so with 95% confidence you know your winrate to within plus/minus 1.14BB/100

That is not particularly specific.

I've said this before and I will say it again. You will never, never know your winrate. Just spend the money.

Guy.

Re: Our PS winrates

[ QUOTE ]
Just spend the money.

[/ QUOTE ]

word!

Re: Our PS winrates

[ QUOTE ]

TBH I've found these threads shocking. Not that I crush or anything like that but it was like one day EVERYBODY just decided to post that they weren't winning.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well they've made me feel a whole lot better. I seriously thought I was the only non-stupid person who couldn't beat these games for a ton of money. Remember my whiny thread a few days ago?

If this one had come first there would have been no issue.

Also, I haven't had a losing session since that thread, so you should all post a whinging thread like I did and you'll be golden.

Guy.

Re: Our PS winrates

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I haven't had a losing session since that thread, so you should all post a whinging thread like I did and you'll be golden.

[/ QUOTE ]

Done, and hopefully done...

Re: Our PS winrates

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, I haven't had a losing session since that thread, so you should all post a whinging thread like I did and you'll be golden.

[/ QUOTE ]

Done, and hopefully done...

[/ QUOTE ]

i posted in this thread and got 4bet by a gutshot on the turn. this is my post to unjinx holla.

Re: Our PS winrates

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what is long?

people say: play 10k hands than post you stats her for review

others say: play 100k to eliminate swings...

I will post some datamined charts and i would really like to discuss:
"if you can beat the game"

[/ QUOTE ]

You need 30,000 hands at a level before knowing your general winrate, and 100,000 hands at a level before knowing your specific winrate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Such a crock.

Assume 18BB/100 standard deviation, which I understand is normal if you work it out right. Then over a 100,000 hand sample your standard error is
18/sqrt(1000) = 0.57

so with 95% confidence you know your winrate to within plus/minus 1.14BB/100

That is not particularly specific.

I've said this before and I will say it again. You will never, never know your winrate. Just spend the money.

Guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

good post 30K, 60K, 100K none of these i would consider long term. When you run good or bad it's very hard to get an idea over what should be considered running average.

Re: Our PS winrates

Just curious, but do you all think the fact that the games are tough and consequently you will have pretty big downswings due to bad runs of cards sometimes affects your judgment and leads to tilt or sloppy play?

I just had an ~250 BB downswing at 10/20 in the course of two sessions and I'm pretty sure at least 50 BB was due to sloppy play. Of course, I usually make some bad mistakes even when running good and you always make more mistakes when running bad because your lack of quality hands puts you to more tough calldown-vs-fold situations. But, I ended up doing really stupid stuff because I was frustrated that I couldn't make a hand and whenever I did someone else flopped better or hit a miracle draw. I "know" better, but I let my frustration affect my play.

It's very humbling to go from running well and feeling like you know what you are doing to running bad and feeling like you don't know how to beat this game. I think the best players can generally see past all that at the table and manage to make good decisions on a fairly consistent basis. I feel like I usually am able to do this, but I realize that I still struggle immensely with this when I run really bad over a short stretch.

BTW, I haven't played the 5/10 since January or early February, but at that time I thought the game was beatable. Still, winning 1.5 BB/100 over a long sample given the amount of rake and the fact that it's no longer the case that there are always 8+ good tables going 24/7 seems like it is a pretty non-trivial task.

Re: Our PS winrates

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what is long?

people say: play 10k hands than post you stats her for review

others say: play 100k to eliminate swings...

I will post some datamined charts and i would really like to discuss:
"if you can beat the game"

[/ QUOTE ]

You need 30,000 hands at a level before knowing your general winrate, and 100,000 hands at a level before knowing your specific winrate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Such a crock.

Assume 18BB/100 standard deviation, which I understand is normal if you work it out right. Then over a 100,000 hand sample your standard error is
18/sqrt(1000) = 0.57

so with 95% confidence you know your winrate to within plus/minus 1.14BB/100

That is not particularly specific.

[/ QUOTE ]

Guess it depends on what you mean by specific.

BTW - if your winrate is 3BB/100 after 100,000 hands, your equation means that your true winrate is 2.43BB to 3.57BB. (Not 1.86BB to 4.14BB).

To me, that's pretty specific.

Re: Our PS winrates

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what is long?

people say: play 10k hands than post you stats her for review

others say: play 100k to eliminate swings...

I will post some datamined charts and i would really like to discuss:
"if you can beat the game"

[/ QUOTE ]

You need 30,000 hands at a level before knowing your general winrate, and 100,000 hands at a level before knowing your specific winrate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Such a crock.

Assume 18BB/100 standard deviation, which I understand is normal if you work it out right. Then over a 100,000 hand sample your standard error is
18/sqrt(1000) = 0.57

so with 95% confidence you know your winrate to within plus/minus 1.14BB/100

That is not particularly specific.

[/ QUOTE ]

Guess it depends on what you mean by specific.

BTW - if your winrate is 3BB/100 after 100,000 hands, your equation means that your true winrate is 2.43BB to 3.57BB. (Not 1.86BB to 4.14BB).

To me, that's pretty specific.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be a one standard deviation confidence interval, i.e. about 70% confidence. For 95% confidence it's 1.86 to 4.14, i.e. two SDs either way. And remember that 5% is not exactly a small chance we're wrong, so let's go for three SDs, 99.7% confidence: 1.29 to 4.71BB/100

Is that specific?

And given that most people are looking at 1.5BB/100 winrates max, we're talking about an interval of -0.21 to 3.21BB/100 after 100,000 hands. Not specific at all in my opinion.

Guy.

Re: Our PS winrates

[ QUOTE ]
Just curious, but do you all think the fact that the games are tough and consequently you will have pretty big downswings due to bad runs of cards sometimes affects your judgment and leads to tilt or sloppy play?

[/ QUOTE ]Absolutely - it's a hard game when 4 of every 5 times when you 3-bet AK from the Button vs. LP BB and LagDonk UTG the flop is Jxx.

-100BB or so last night, and probably the last 40 or so was me just trying to bull my way through a run of bad cards/missed flops. Bad Idea Jeans. I might try SNG's for awhile, as I might just need the defined increments of each tournament.

Re: Our PS winrates

Just felt like posting this hand in a somewhat obscure location.

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 1 fold, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.40 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls.

Turn: (7.70 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, CO calls.

River: (13.70 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

Final Pot: 15.70 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Kc Ks (two pair, kings and threes).
CO has Js Kh (two pair, jacks and threes).
Outcome: Hero wins 15.70 BB.

Re: Our PS winrates

Miles, from what I gather about your image, this hand can't be that remarkable, can it?

Re: Our PS winrates

miles you are the luckiest dude i've ever seen

i'm changing my PS sn to SKLANSKYRULZAMIRITE

Re: Our PS winrates

I just don't get my "image." I am so ABC it hurts. Ask chezlaw.

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (4 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

River: (10.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has Th Ad (one pair, sevens).
Hero has 7s 8s (three of a kind, sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins 12.50 BB. 

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (5 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG has Kd 8d (high card, king).
Hero has Ks Kc (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 12.50 BB. 

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (8.40 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls, BB folds.

Turn: (5.70 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls.

River: (8.70 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Button folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.70 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ac Kc (one pair, aces).
CO has 4d Ad (one pair, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins 12.70 BB. 

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, Button calls.

Flop: (7 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ah Ks (one pair, kings).
Button has 3s 3c (one pair, threes).
Outcome: Hero wins 10.50 BB. 

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, MP calls, Button folds.

Turn: (3 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP calls.

River: (5 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Th Jc (two pair, jacks and tens).
MP has Ad 3s (high card, ace).
Outcome: Hero wins 9 BB. 

And one of those nearly perfect storm hands (has nothing to do with my image really - nevermind, he did give way way too much action):

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB raises, UTG calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (8.40 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, Button folds, BB 3-bets, UTG calls, Hero caps, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (10.20 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: (16.20 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

Final Pot: 20.20 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has As Kd (straight, ace high).
Hero has 9s Qs (straight flush, king high).
Outcome: Hero wins 20.20 BB.

Re: Our PS winrates

dude KK and AK hands are hot I need to pull that [censored] more

Re: Our PS winrates

[ QUOTE ]
I just don't get my "image." I am so ABC it hurts. Ask chezlaw.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree.

Last few times we played you were very quiet - Don't you think ABC works better when you trash talk?

chez

Re: Our PS winrates

Ive had crazyyy swings at 5/10.. If you look at my poker grapher for a graph of BB vs Hands, it's pretty smooth up until my 5/10 play where it looks like a seismograph when an earthquake hits.

I can't run "ok" at 5/10, I either run so hot that I almost want to stop playing because im shaking from all the money that's coming in. Or so cold that I end up yelling obscenities and punching holes through the wall. (dramatic exageration)

Over 25k hands, a period which I'm pretty sure i've run slightly cold over I'm @ 1.2BB/100. This includes
3 150BB-300BB downswings (some of it was @ 3/6, I cna't remmember how much)

To contrast:

3/6 I am 3.2BB/100 over ~45k

2/4 5.2BB/100 ~25k (with another 25k hands at party poker over @ 6.0BB/100) (god I ran hot at 2/4)

To be fair, I used to excersize the most anal table selection back @ 3/6 and 2/4. Never played more than 2 tables for all of 2/4 and about 75% of 3/6.

Now im 3-4 tabling with not nearly as good table selection (there isnt really a choice)... I've also been adjusting to playing a 30/20 style , rather than 24/17.
This all increases the variance and lowers my win rate.

The games are getting tougher and tougher as time passes too [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]