Buying a \"certified\" used car
 

Dear OOT Geniuses:

I want to buy a used Honda Odyssey. I have been watching the dealers around here for a while, and one nearby has one I like (2004 EX-L, 55K miles, loaded with everything except sunroof and DVD player (both of which I do NOT want anyway)).

I have financing already arranged through my credit union. When I negotiate the price, I tell them and they fedex a check.

My questions are mostly about the negotiation process.

The dealer is asking $20,900 for the van, which is below the "blue book" value of around $22-$24k but above the actual selling prices I'm observing on ebay (comprably equipped vans with significantly fewer miles are going for around $20k). My credit union, which is very helpful, told me that the "loan value" of the van with the options and milage is $16,900 - this is supposedly the amount the dealer would pay if he bought it at wholesale auction, and this is where the credit union suggested I open negotiations.

After that, though, it gets fuzzy. Of course they're going to laugh at the first offer, which is fine, but then they're going to come back with something like $20k, say. What's my next move? The credit union's buying guide literally suggested upping my offer by twenty five dollars. In their example, the dealer's asking price was $22,000, the opening offer was $17,000, the dealer's counter offer was $21,000, and the buyer's next offer was "how about $17,025? Well, $17,030?" The idea being to show that you're a "tough negotiator" I suppose. Does this work? I don't mind walking out on this van if they won't come down on the price, as another one will show up in a week or two, but I don't want to be so unreasonable that they won't deal with me in the future.

What price can I reasonably expect to get out of them, and what is the most effective way to do it?

Re: Buying a \"certified\" used car
 

There's nothing wrong with them making some profit. You need to give them a reasonable profit. If they did in fact get the van for $16,900, then I'd go for something like $18k. If they have no problem moving these vans, then they're going to hold at $20k. I suspect that they don't have any problem moving these things - these are pretty popular vans - so you might be stuck with $20k.

Re: Buying a \"certified\" used car
 

[ QUOTE ]
these are pretty popular vans - so you might be stuck with $20k.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the issue. If the dealer knows this van will move at sticker within days you don't have much leverage, but do not let that stop you from trying to negotiate.

I have a 2003 Honda Odyssey and it is the best car purchase I have made yet. You will be very happy with this vehicle. Good luck.

Re: Buying a \"certified\" used car
 

Start at that 16.9 figure, if they arent willing to negotiate off that 20k price, you can still buy it, its not like they will tell you no!

Re: Buying a \"certified\" used car
 

The vans are popular, but since the 2005 model year redesign, they aren't as hot as they used to be. This one has been sitting on the lot for a week and a half already, and the sales d00d I talked to on monday wasn't in a big hurry, and didn't make any "this one will go fast" type of threats to push me into acting faster.

Re: Buying a \"certified\" used car
 

BTW, if the vans were really going fast for $21K, wouldn't the wholesale auction prices be much higher than $16,900??

Re: Buying a \"certified\" used car
 

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, if the vans were really going fast for $21K, wouldn't the wholesale auction prices be much higher than $16,900??

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. The dealers auctions usually sell for about 4-5 k less than what the dealer will mark them up at. So that figure is about right.

Re: Buying a \"certified\" used car
 

you'll pay more for a certified honda. It cost the dealer somewhere in the neighborhood of an extra thousand dollars to certify that van. But you are getting extra warranty and an assurance that the vehicle is up to snuff. Around 19000 would be a fair price. if all of the info u have is correct. Where do you live? The market you are in can have a big affect on the price of a vehicle. If u pm me back i'd be glad to verify the auction price of the van. My work has auction reports. Just send me the yr make model miles and equipment and the area u r from.
bud

Re: Buying a \"certified\" used car
 

Thanks Bud, PM sent.

Re: Buying a \"certified\" used car
 

[ QUOTE ]
My credit union, which is very helpful, told me that the "loan value" of the van with the options and milage is $16,900 - this is supposedly the amount the dealer would pay if he bought it at wholesale auction, and this is where the credit union suggested I open negotiations.



[/ QUOTE ]

Auto dealers don't loan money and Credit Unions don't sell cars, there is a reason for this. Go back to your credit union and tell them the car salesman says they only pay 3% interest on the money they loan you at 6% so you think you should only pay 3.01% interest and see what they tell you.

Jimbo

Re: Buying a \"certified\" used car
 

[ QUOTE ]
In their example, the dealer's asking price was $22,000, the opening offer was $17,000, the dealer's counter offer was $21,000, and the buyer's next offer was "how about $17,025? Well, $17,030?" The idea being to show that you're a "tough negotiator" I suppose. Does this work?

[/ QUOTE ]

Clarkmeister recently bought a car using almost exactly this technique. Except, he didn't give them even $25. He told me the story something like this (forgot the exact numbers):

Them: 34?
Him: 28
Them: 33.5?
Him: 28
Them: 33?
Him: 28
Them: 32.5?
Him: 28
Them: 32, and that's as low as we can go
Him: I know you'll go to 28, so can we just get this over with?
Them: 32 is as low as we can go.
Him: I faxed orders to other dealers, and the lowest offer got just a few hundred above 28. So it's 28 or nothing.
Them: 31?
Him: 28
Them: 30?
Him: 28
Them: 29.5?
Him: 28
Them: 29?
Him: 28
Them: 28.5?
Him: 28
Them: 28.1? (Yes, they really offered him his price plus $100... that's balls)
Him: 28
Them: Ok.

Re: Buying a \"certified\" used car
 

BTW, faxing other dealers with similar vehicles is a good idea. Find every dealer in a 500 mile radius that has a similarish car. Send them a fax saying,

"I'm interested in your such-and-such car, I've found 18 similar ones in the area, and I'll buy the one I get the lowest offer on. Please make an offer by X day."

Then take the three or four lowest offers and fax them a second one. "The lowest offer was X. If you can beat that and get to X-Y, then I'll buy."

Obviously, this works best for new cars, but certified cars are a bit of a commodity also.

Re: Buying a \"certified\" used car
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In their example, the dealer's asking price was $22,000, the opening offer was $17,000, the dealer's counter offer was $21,000, and the buyer's next offer was "how about $17,025? Well, $17,030?" The idea being to show that you're a "tough negotiator" I suppose. Does this work?

[/ QUOTE ]

Clarkmeister recently bought a car using almost exactly this technique. Except, he didn't give them even $25. He told me the story something like this (forgot the exact numbers):

Them: 34?
Him: 28
Them: 33.5?
Him: 28
Them: 33?
Him: 28
Them: 32.5?
Him: 28
Them: 32, and that's as low as we can go
Him: I know you'll go to 28, so can we just get this over with?
Them: 32 is as low as we can go.
Him: I faxed orders to other dealers, and the lowest offer got just a few hundred above 28. So it's 28 or nothing.
Them: 31?
Him: 28
Them: 30?
Him: 28
Them: 29.5?
Him: 28
Them: 29?
Him: 28
Them: 28.5?
Him: 28
Them: 28.1? (Yes, they really offered him his price plus $100... that's balls)
Him: 28
Them: Ok.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm willing to try this technique. Worst case I just find another car.

Re: Buying a \"certified\" used car
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In their example, the dealer's asking price was $22,000, the opening offer was $17,000, the dealer's counter offer was $21,000, and the buyer's next offer was "how about $17,025? Well, $17,030?" The idea being to show that you're a "tough negotiator" I suppose. Does this work?

[/ QUOTE ]

Clarkmeister recently bought a car using almost exactly this technique. Except, he didn't give them even $25. He told me the story something like this (forgot the exact numbers):

Them: 34?
Him: 28
Them: 33.5?
Him: 28
Them: 33?
Him: 28
Them: 32.5?
Him: 28
Them: 32, and that's as low as we can go
Him: I know you'll go to 28, so can we just get this over with?
Them: 32 is as low as we can go.
Him: I faxed orders to other dealers, and the lowest offer got just a few hundred above 28. So it's 28 or nothing.
Them: 31?
Him: 28
Them: 30?
Him: 28
Them: 29.5?
Him: 28
Them: 29?
Him: 28
Them: 28.5?
Him: 28
Them: 28.1? (Yes, they really offered him his price plus $100... that's balls)
Him: 28
Them: Ok.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm willing to try this technique. Worst case I just find another car.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are not doing this, you're paying too much for your car. You need to research the hell out of the car you're interested in (do the things Ed said), and never budge from the price you're willing to pay. That's the way it's done. They will come down to your price.

Also, don't get raped in the finance department. You can get the 100k mile extended warranty for around $500, not $2k. Don't pay doc fees either. That's their cost of doing business and don't hesitate to tell them that. Just say you never pay doc fees and won't start anytime soon.

Re: Buying a \"certified\" used car
 

To echo what other people have said. What's the car worth to you? Say it's X:

If they'll matches X or lower, than hooray. You've got a new ride. If not, then tell them to go screw themselves.

By the by, my favorite thing to say to a dealer when haggling is, "What will it take to get me into this car?"

Re: Buying a \"certified\" used car
 

Eddie,

I thought we were going to get the story that goes:

Clark: (After an hour of haggling in the sweltering desert heat) Well, the price is great. Now let's do the trade-in.

Dealer: Where's the trade-in?

Clark: Over there. Why don't you give me a thousand for it.

Dealer: You already screwed us on the car, I'm not giving you a dime for that 100 dollar pieceofshit. How about 400? You should feel lucky to get that much.

Clark: No. Give me a dime.

Dealer: Fvck you. I'll give you 500.

Clark: Great!

I don't know why I love that one so much, but everytime I see Clark's car, or even one like that, I still get a chuckle from this story.

Re: Buying a \"certified\" used car
 

[ QUOTE ]
Eddie,

I thought we were going to get the story that goes:

Clark: (After an hour of haggling in the sweltering desert heat) Well, the price is great. Now let's do the trade-in.

Dealer: Where's the trade-in?

Clark: Over there. Why don't you give me a thousand for it.

Dealer: You already screwed us on the car, I'm not giving you a dime for that 100 dollar pieceofshit. How about 400? You should feel lucky to get that much.

Clark: No. Give me a dime.

Dealer: Fvck you. I'll give you 500.

Clark: Great!

I don't know why I love that one so much, but everytime I see Clark's car, or even one like that, I still get a chuckle from this story.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eddie's story is basically correct. It was a new car purchase for my g/f.

Sucker is discussing my car, which I also got a great price on. Comes time to trade-in my 1993 Mercury Topaz with 165k miles on it and brutally bad breaks and a chronically bad battery.

Dealer: "So you going to trade that one in"
Clark: "Most likely"
Dealer: "What do you want for it?"
Clark: "Give me a nickel for it"
Dealer: "I'm not giving you a nickel for the hundred-dollar car"
Clark: "I know you can get a nickel at auction. The tires are pretty new"
Dealer: "I'll give you $400 for the hundred dollar car."
Clark: "Done."

Re: Buying a \"certified\" used car
 

[ QUOTE ]
Dealer: "So you going to trade that one in"
Clark: "Most likely"
Dealer: "What do you want for it?"
Clark: "Give me a nickel for it"
Dealer: "I'm not giving you a nickel for the hundred-dollar car"
Clark: "I know you can get a nickel at auction. The tires are pretty new"
Dealer: "I'll give you $400 for the hundred dollar car."
Clark: "Done."

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Buying a \"certified\" used car
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Eddie,

I thought we were going to get the story that goes:

Clark: (After an hour of haggling in the sweltering desert heat) Well, the price is great. Now let's do the trade-in.

Dealer: Where's the trade-in?

Clark: Over there. Why don't you give me a thousand for it.

Dealer: You already screwed us on the car, I'm not giving you a dime for that 100 dollar pieceofshit. How about 400? You should feel lucky to get that much.

Clark: No. Give me a dime.

Dealer: Fvck you. I'll give you 500.

Clark: Great!

I don't know why I love that one so much, but everytime I see Clark's car, or even one like that, I still get a chuckle from this story.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eddie's story is basically correct. It was a new car purchase for my g/f.

Sucker is discussing my car, which I also got a great price on. Comes time to trade-in my 1993 Mercury Topaz with 165k miles on it and brutally bad breaks and a chronically bad battery.

Dealer: "So you going to trade that one in"
Clark: "Most likely"
Dealer: "What do you want for it?"
Clark: "Give me a nickel for it"
Dealer: "I'm not giving you a nickel for the hundred-dollar car"
Clark: "I know you can get a nickel at auction. The tires are pretty new"
Dealer: "I'll give you $400 for the hundred dollar car."
Clark: "Done."

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahahaha. When a programmer friend of mine started consulting a couple of years ago he was negotiating the hourly rate on his first gig.

Them: So how much do you charge per hour?
Him: Uhhh, $120.
Them: Okay.
Him: F--k.