NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

5/10 PP. 6 handed. I have been playing for 45 minutes on the table, I am clearly aggressive. SB looks serious since he has not played so many hands. He did not see a lot of flops.

SB : 1100$
BB : 1000$
Seat 3: 1000$
Seat 4: 1000$
Hero :1200$
Bouton :1000$

Hero : AdAs

Seat 3 fold
Seat 4 fold
Hero raises $40
Bouton Fold
SB raises to $140
BB fold

Firstly, I am wondering whether calling is better than reraising since a mini raise will be too suspect and an all in could make him fold. ( his odds to call are pretty poor, despite the fact that I appear very aggressive)

Hero calls

Flop Qh10hJd (Pot $290)

SB bets $200

What do you do?

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

u said u had an aggressive image, why not re-raise to 350 preflop? that might induce a reraise allin or at least get more money in the pot, considering they dont respect ur raises? on flop, i would be very suspicious of villian having ak...

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

MSNL

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

As played shove or fold here. I imagine his range is pretty narrow to cbet here(99-AA, ATs, AJs, AQ, AK) You just might fold out a set here if you are beat. But if you have aggro image, please repop or shove, esp if he hasn't reraise you before.

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

yes orlando, you might fold out a set

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

[ QUOTE ]
yes orlando, you might fold out a set

[/ QUOTE ]

LoL

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

I can only see AQ or 99 that we are ahead of so its a fold or maybe a call if hes predictable to see what he does on the turn.

He needs to figure youve got something, I mean your range is pretty close to his.

I fold.

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

4 bet to 440 pre. Push flop.

As played, call. You have position, and it's live. If you can't get a read on a board like this, quit poker.

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

I don't think folding or raising are options, so call.

Preflop, I think your call is fine. You just got a bad flop.

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

[ QUOTE ]
As played shove or fold here. I imagine his range is pretty narrow to cbet here(99-AA, ATs, AJs, AQ, AK) You just might fold out a set here if you are beat. But if you have aggro image, please repop or shove, esp if he hasn't reraise you before.

[/ QUOTE ]

SALAZARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

I think SB floped a set of 10 jacks or queens here. Fold its better then having your aces fully craked.

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

wow i don't even play 5/10 and even i know there has been some pretty horrible advice in this thready. Call flop ffs, fold to a turn bet unless you improve

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

Preflop my question is :

Will I make more money by calling and having my hand clearly disguised, according to the fact that I am aggressive and my player might over play a hand which is worth less than mine (Preflop). Calling allow me to probably collect a continous on PF.
However, reraising preflop ( How much ? interesting question as well ?!) will build a bigger pot but my hand will not be disguised anymore. It depends of how I am aggressive, because I do not remember having been reraised..

The question is : how is worth deception ?!

See what happened at the turn :

Hero calls

Turn Jc {Qh10hJd} (pot $680)

SB goes all in for $760. My stack is bigger.

What do you do?

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

If villain thinks you are extremely tight then your hand has ~0 showdown value no matter what cards you hold. He will only show down when he has a substantial hand. Run with your image until you are viwed as out of control...then adjust. Get it done baby miniballer style.

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

[ QUOTE ]
wow i don't even play 5/10 and even i know there has been some pretty horrible advice in this thready. Call flop ffs, fold to a turn bet unless you improve

[/ QUOTE ]

And this is why you DON'T play 5/10

Reraise preflop...as played fold flop for reasons stated above...only hands your beating are 99, KK and AQ. Calling on the flop is a huge mistake against a nit, cause most of the time you only have 6 outs max.

Since you got to turn...you obviously believed you were ahead. Board didn't change much...he didn't have 2 pair on the flop, so the J doesn't help your hand any (it didn't counterfit his 2pr). Seems like the only hand your beating is KK.

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

My idea is the following is :

Since I am aggressive, I guess his range of hands (for an apparently tight player) could go from 88+ to AQo+ (KQs?). I did not make anybody think I am loose, I am just aggressive. Therefore, if the player is a fairly good poker player, I assume that he will play differently a set (10 J or Q) on the turn.
Then, because a J does not belong to his range of hands, the only hands who could beat is AK and he could have AQ, 99, KK or KQs.

But I agree AK is more likely than KQs (for example) despite the reduce number of AK possible.

Then, in my opinion, if you agree to my assumptions, the question is reduced as a simple calcul of odds. I did not caculate it, I might but I think I am ahead.

Your opinion?

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

how do you think he'll play a set on the turn? why not push it in before a scarecard comes? you think he thinks you're floating the flop and will bluff the turn? pretty far fetched. i'd be much more likely to think that since you called the flop, you'll probably call the turn.

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

you said that he's a nit, why do you assume that he's going to be reraising with KQ? I think his range is smaller than what you make it out to be. The problem with the J turn is that it means you could be drawing to only 2 outs, which makes your "odds" much worse.

My opinions i stated before...4-bet pre, fold flop, as played i guess calculate your odds, but i still think you're beat.

TWP -- pushing flop seems terrible...is a nit going to call with AQ there? if not then the only hand calling that we're beating is KK, and even Kings have 6 outs to beat us

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

so did you call?

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

[ QUOTE ]
only hands your beating are 99, KK and AQ

[/ QUOTE ]

are you kidding? people raise all kinds of [censored] preflop, especially from an aggressive cut-off raiser. I'm a nit at 2/4 and yet i still would raise hands like medium pairs and suited connectors in this position. There is a good chance villain will shut down on the turn if he has air.

[ QUOTE ]
Reraise preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't be results orientated, calling preflop is totally standard unless you're a total maniacal 4-bettor which i assume op is not. With 100bbish stacks, calling preflop is absolutely fine

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

Yes, you are right. Actually, the range of hand that I estimated was probably influenced by what he actually had.
If he is tight, I have to narrow his range to JJ+/AQ+, which seems probably more realistic.

Postflop, I agree pushing in seems a very bad move (by the way, making a substantial raise (to avoid any free card) will almost commit me anyway ).

On the turn, I dont agree with a previous post. Playing a set like this is only good if he knows me very well and he knows that I will be more willing to fold on a suck bet than on an overbet.

If you flop a full on such a board and if you only know that your opponent is aggressive, are you gonna seriously overbet the pot ?

What about 1/2 or 2/3 of the pot as the previous bet, or even checking since I am aggressive.

For information he had actually KQs...

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

you called and 9 spiked river [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

And of course, I called his bet

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

You can smooth the flop and fold the turn but I doubt he is not leading twice on this board, esp if he has been playing as tight as you say, so a fold on the flop may be optimal. I also think you should 4bet pre esp if he is playing tight.

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

i never said anything about pushign the flop

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

[ QUOTE ]
As played shove or fold here. I imagine his range is pretty narrow to cbet here(99-AA, ATs, AJs, AQ, AK) You just might fold out a set here if you are beat. But if you have aggro image, please repop or shove, esp if he hasn't reraise you before.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nobody in the history of poker has ever folded a flopped set.

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

False.

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

make it 300-350 more to go preflop.

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

with a little less than 500 in the pot, is it really terrible to push with our remaining 900?

-JooWish

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

If you're "clearly aggressive" a push is probably better than a call.

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
wow i don't even play 5/10 and even i know there has been some pretty horrible advice in this thready. Call flop ffs, fold to a turn bet unless you improve

[/ QUOTE ]

And this is why you DON'T play 5/10

Reraise preflop...as played fold flop for reasons stated above...only hands your beating are 99, KK and AQ. Calling on the flop is a huge mistake against a nit, cause most of the time you only have 6 outs max.

Since you got to turn...you obviously believed you were ahead. Board didn't change much...he didn't have 2 pair on the flop, so the J doesn't help your hand any (it didn't counterfit his 2pr). Seems like the only hand your beating is KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

The preflop advice here is pretty horrendous.

Your play is fine for this situation.

Since the opponet is very tight, I think your flop call and folding the turn are fine.

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

[ QUOTE ]
As played shove or fold here. I imagine his range is pretty narrow to cbet here(99-AA, ATs, AJs, AQ, AK) You just might fold out a set here if you are beat. But if you have aggro image, please repop or shove, esp if he hasn't reraise you before.

[/ QUOTE ]

No one is ever folding a set in a re-raised pot. That's craziness. I really do mean that no one is ever folding a set there.

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

wow at this thread.

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

i make it like 340 total pf, this allows me to do it with a very wide range, INCLUDING aces. as played call flop decide turn, usually getting it in. folding and shoving are simply not options. this is standard.

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

[ QUOTE ]
i make it like 340 total pf, this allows me to do it with a very wide range, INCLUDING aces. as played call flop decide turn, usually getting it in. folding and shoving are simply not options. this is standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

folding flop is also fine I think against this opp

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

rerereraise preflop plz. whats wrong with taking down 14x BB preflop with no chance of suckout? if i could get that kind of action on my aces every time i would be a rich man

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

keep playing 5/10 pls

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

[ QUOTE ]
why not push it in before a scarecard comes?

[/ QUOTE ]

what did you mean by this then?

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

[ QUOTE ]
keep playing 5/10 pls

[/ QUOTE ]
me or OP? either way, you'll probably get your wish is my guess.

Re: NL 5/10 AA on Flop QdJh10h
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why not push it in before a scarecard comes?

[/ QUOTE ]

what did you mean by this then?

[/ QUOTE ]
I meant that villain might think along those lines and therefore play a set like this. I was questioning how OP knew villain didnt have a set here.