Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

Below is a quote from Gaucho's blog. Anyone know who he staked?

[ QUOTE ]
life tilt...
Today I made a truly horrible decision, and was punished for it. A friend IM'ed me, asking for a stake in the 200/400 game that was running on FTP. I looked who was in the game, and I saw the lineup. Aba, who many consider the best NLHE player in the world, was in the game. So was David Benyamine, the biggest winner in PLO but a known loser in NLHE. That said, he is a very dangerous lag. Helge Larsen, Vaga_Lion (a known nit), and Serb (Nenad Medic) rounded out the lineup. I asked my friend if he thought he had an edge, and he replied that he did. I took up his offer, and off he was. The first four pots he played, he was cr shoved AI on the flop, forcing him to fold top pair. The other time he called 97o out of the blinds (Aba raised from sb, he called from BB), floated a gutshot on a two flush board, and bet a board pairing turn card, and was called down by aba by bottom pair. Also, he did not bluff the river when the flush hit, making the one reasonable hand he could have held. Aba's bottom pair was good. It was like watching a train wreck.

The next hand, he double barreled on a ridiculous board. He raised from LP with a4. Vaga (nit) called from blinds. Flop is K35 two clubs. Vaga chk calls. Vaga never has anything worse than a King or a flush draw here. Turn Q, non club. Vaga will never fold a king, two pair, or a flush draw on this board, yet my friend bets, obv. gets cr shoved on, and has to fold A4. The other hand was a cooler.

I could care less about how my friend played, I am utterly livid at my poor decision making. I blew a huge sum of money (40k) on a pipe dream high variance gamble. I work so hard at my medium stakes games that for me to do something stupid like this is basically a slap in the face to all the hard work I have done. I really learned a number of important lessons from this, and I will not make the same mistakes again. I also learned that I am not able to tolerate such risks in investments I can't control.



EDIT: I was so infuriated, after going out to a nice dinner, I decided to take my anger out on my opponents at the poker table. I absolutely demolished everyone I played HU, and won 23k in about an hour. Almost recovered from the idiotic mistake. An expensive lesson, but one which I will learn a lot from in the future.

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Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

grim?

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

no wai

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

Em2?

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

It was Strassa.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

[ QUOTE ]

The next hand, he double barreled on a ridiculous board. He raised from LP with a4. Vaga (nit) called from blinds. Flop is K35 two clubs. Vaga chk calls. Vaga never has anything worse than a King or a flush draw here. Turn Q, non club. Vaga will never fold a king, two pair, or a flush draw on this board, yet my friend bets, obv. gets cr shoved on, and has to fold A4.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw this hand and IIRC it was strassa2.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

This is totally absurd. I mean if you are going to post this, why even leave out that it was me.

There was a pretty good 2-4 game, I asked you if you wanted half, you said yes. I stand by evecy hand I played. I guess I have to defend myself?

Hand 1:

I raise 98 or T9 I forget on the button. Benyamine calls from BB. Flop 954 or something two spades. Benyamine checks, I bet 2k into 2800, benyamine CR all in for 40k I fold.

Hand 2:

I raise A4ss in CO, button calls, Vaga calls in SB. Flop K53 2 clubs. Check check I bet around pot, Vaga calls. Turn offsuit Q. Check, I bet 3/4 pot (9k into 13k), Vaga CR all in for 25k more.

Do I even need to explain myself? Sure, checking allows me to peel to anywhere between 3-7 outs, but I was trying to represent a strong hand. I would never check behind a big hand here on this board, and I thoought it would be difficult for him to CR all in with some sort of low club draw, or just a king. There are reasons to bet, there are reasons to check, I chose to bet.

Hand 3:
Aba raises SB, I call bb with 97o. Flop comes T64 2 spades. Aba bets 2k or something I call. Turn 6, Aba checks, I pot for 5400 or whatever. Aba calls. River Ks, he checks, I check. Thought process (do you really need this???): aba raises pf and bets the flop with zillions of hands, and will fold air here and be giving up on the turn a decent percentage. I didnt bluff the river because I for some reason convinced myself that he would call light here and that there was a chance he was CRing with a boat or had a flush. He also would probably expect me to check a ten behind on the river, thus making a light call a possibility. He had 34.

Hand 4:

Helge raises, I reraise with QQ on button to 5kish, he calls. Flop 9 high all hearts I have Qh. He check calls 9k bet. Turn offsuit 7, he leads all in for ~pot I call. He has 77. I miss.

Hand 5: Im down to my last 5k or so right after this QQ hand. Aba raises to 1400 UTG I have QQ I shove next to act, Helge has AA in the BB.


The bottom line is this. I asked you for action, you gave it to me. I am not a [censored] moron. Afterwards you bash my play, tell me I [censored] up real bad, blah blah. I disagree. This is an aggressive 2-4 game and 2 BI in nothing, it happens. Calling what I did a trainwreck shows a total lack of general knowledge about that game. Afterwards you were whining even about the first benyamine hand, saying I should call!

You send me my money and seem very agitated at me. Then you call me out on your blog (please defend yourself by saying you didnt say my name).

The bottom line is this, everyone in this world has been in your position. I take action all the time, whether its in the stock market, poker room, golf course, etc. The bottom line is this, when I stake someone and they win, I dont feel bad about taking my portion. When they lose, I dont give them [censored] for losing, I just pay up. If I thought they played bad, I would tell them (privately).

For someone as bright as you, who is going into the world of finance which is filled with risk and where you everyone has days where nothing goes right, I am surprised you handled this situation so poorly. Learn to just accept a loss and not irrationally lash out, especially a loss that you had to assume was extremely possible. Feel free to post these hands in HSNL or give them to your other poker friends or even Aba (gasp) and see what they say, I stand by all my moves and I did my best. But most of all, dont [censored] call me out in public ever again for something that should definitely be kept in private. It's a pretty [censored] way to treat a friend who has been very good to you. Wasnt I the one who saw you playing like a total idiot in a club in NY and offered to help you out with your game? Didnt I take you and your friends out to a Mets game (field box)? Don't I let you sweat my hands whenever you ask or help you out with a poker question whenever?

Im disgusted and slightly hurt.

-Jason

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

btw a nit never has a set on this board either on the turn

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

Yeah, those hands all seem pretty reasonable. Gaucho comes across as a jerk with his blog post. Maybe he was still in shock at losing that much, but c'mon man, you knew you could've lost that cash. And outing a friend of yours in public and pretty much making him sound like a dumb donk is rude.

Strassa, let's go to a Mets game.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

gaucho is out of line here IMO

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

Sounds like Gaucho is trying to push the blame onto strassa when he fully realizes it's his fault for the stake in the first place. That's a pretty [censored] thing to do on his blog and to a friend.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

2 buyins is nothing.

I think Jason is + ev in that lineup but the variance is so high that anything can happen.

Gaucho may be a decent winning player but its unfair to criticize Jason who is an elite player. If a player far below my level criticized me I wouldn't be hurt at all.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

Gaucho is def out of line here. He's been a good guy to me but he is one of the most results oriented ppl out there. And taking someone's action and publicly bitching out on them is super lame, especially since it looks to me like Strass played the hands like I would have?

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

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I could care less about how my friend played, I am utterly livid at my poor decision making.

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He's taking responsibility for making an investment outside of his own risk tolerance. I don't think Jason should be that offended. Sure, Gaucho is criticizing his play, but why is that offensive? He's not insulting Jason's honesty, or character or anything.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

He is prob just upset and venting but it is in poor taste to call Strassa out publicly for "playing badly". Especially when if you aren't the one sitting in a game like that it's hard to criticize how someone else played a hand.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

[ QUOTE ]
2 buyins is nothing.

I think Jason is + ev in that lineup but the variance is so high that anything can happen.

Gaucho may be a decent winning player but its unfair to criticize Jason who is an elite player. If a player far below my level criticized me I wouldn't be hurt at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt take his comments about my play too seriously, I was hurt that a friend would act the way he did, not because he didnt agree w/ my lines.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

Outing me in public is offensive and puts me in a crap spot.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I could care less about how my friend played, I am utterly livid at my poor decision making.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's taking responsibility for making an investment outside of his own risk tolerance. I don't think Jason should be that offended. Sure, Gaucho is criticizing his play, but why is that offensive? He's not insulting Jason's honesty, or character or anything.

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If this is true he should have left out his commentary on the hands themselves to make sure people understood that. Once he starts criticizing the hands he is criticizing Jason, not himself, and whether he intends this to be the basic message or not that's what it becomes.

edit: notice it had Jason defending his play even though there is no reason he should have to.
You just don't out/call out people like this.
You post "I made a stupid business decision today and I'm upset about it" and mostly leave it be at that.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I could care less about how my friend played, I am utterly livid at my poor decision making.

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He's taking responsibility for making an investment outside of his own risk tolerance. I don't think Jason should be that offended. Sure, Gaucho is criticizing his play, but why is that offensive? He's not insulting Jason's honesty, or character or anything.

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the tone of the blog entry is what is upsetting. it's just not how you should be treating a friend.

i think the fact that gaucho only took half the action and he implies that he staked strassa fully for the game says it all. just sounds like the guy is full of himself and pissed off that he wasted all this money by putting a friend into a huge game.

this wasn't the case. he took half of someones action in a big game and now is crying about it afterwards.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Outing me in public is offensive and puts me in a crap spot.

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I think you're kind of a tool, but you definitely didn't deserve this. I surely hope you don't consider this guy a friend anymore. What a complete dick move by gaucho.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

I wonder if he would've complained if you would have successfully strassed someone!

Sorry, know this has turned into semi-serious ess. Make sure to retain the benefit of the doubt that he might've just exercised some poor spur-of-the-moment judgment in posting this in his blog. Some ppl tend to treat a blog like a private journal where they vent sometimes.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

Yeah Gaucho whined in his blog like a little girl who dropped her ice cream cone on the sidewalk. All this bitching after posting about winning 180k in the last month too lol.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Outing me in public is offensive and puts me in a crap spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

"I could care less about how my friend played, I am utterly livid at my poor decision making. "


Jason,
That was the most relevant part of my blog entry. I didn't care how you played. If I thought you played poorly, I wouldn't have taken a piece regardless. I didn't out you on a public forum, didn't mention your name, nothing like that. I have no idea who the OP is, and certainly never intended for a shitshow like this to happen. I respect your game more than just about anyone's and as you saw, I wasn't mad at you at ALL. I was mad at myself for making a poor decision. Losing 40k in 20 min, which was my 2nd biggest losing day EVER, made my head spin. I was on utter life tilt. I don't play as high as you do, and am not used to the swings. I made the poor decision. It had nothing to do with you. To say I whined is absurd when I sent you the 40k INSTANTLY, could not have been faster. I am a man and pay my debts and can handle a loss, even though it hurts. Obviously, I will recover. I was upset at myself for making a poor decision. I am very hard on myself and the bad decisions I make (which are many), and this is probably one of the reasons for my successs.

Just so everyone knows, Jason essentially taught me the game of online poker. He has literally been my mentor from 1-2 nl on. I respect his play more than just about anyone that i've met, and consider his posts truly remarkable in their clarity and logic. Whenver I have a tough hand, he is always on the top of my list to ask. Jason, again, I wasn't mad at you AT ALL, I was only mad at myself. I also feel like I am allowed to question the plays you made, but you CERTAINLY have no need to defend them.

I take marginal ev gambles all the time, it was MY choice, MY responsibility, I am not blaming you at all. Sorry if my blog entry came off that way. I sincerely apologize.

dlpnyc21

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

[ QUOTE ]
He is prob just upset and venting but it is in poor taste to call Strassa out publicly for "playing badly". Especially when if you aren't the one sitting in a game like that it's hard to criticize how someone else played a hand.

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I never once called him out publicly. I would never do that, and consider it in poor taste. I should have taken the specifics of the hands down, I didn't realize it would be that easy to figure it out. That wasn't smart on my part, and was not my intention. Removing them from my blog now...

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

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OP, FU for posting that.

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What did OP do? You decided to act secretive in a public blog, what were you expecting? He didn't say anything bad about you one way or the other.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder if he would've complained if you would have successfully strassed someone!

Sorry, know this has turned into semi-serious ess. Make sure to retain the benefit of the doubt that he might've just exercised some poor spur-of-the-moment judgment in posting this in his blog. Some ppl tend to treat a blog like a private journal where they vent sometimes.

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Yep, this was just me venting. I wrote it pretty quickly after it happened because I was steaming. Again, I wasn't mad at J at all, ONLY mad at myself. I am allowed to bitch and whine at my own decision making. Taking it out on others is totally wrong and out of line, and that's not what I was doing. Obviously. I never posted his name on my blog or anything of that nature, but certainly I am allowed to tilt after having my second biggest losing day ever no, lol!!

I think this got blown way out of proportion and again I apologize for any poor judgment on my part.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

[ QUOTE ]
2 buyins is nothing.

I think Jason is + ev in that lineup but the variance is so high that anything can happen.

Gaucho may be a decent winning player but its unfair to criticize Jason who is an elite player. If a player far below my level criticized me I wouldn't be hurt at all.

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I'm so far below Jason's level as a player and thinker about the game it's not even close. Bld is exactly right. I can always question someone's plays, I can even question a play Aba made, but if I was as good as them I'd be playing as high as them and winning as much as them and I don't. Jason knew not to take my criticisms too seriously as I'm a medium stakes donk and he has no need to defend his play. I never asked him to defend his play either.

Again, the relevant point is that I was mad at MYSELF. I had my second biggest losing day ever and was on life tilt. I learned a few very important lessons though and consider this an inexpensive lesson relative to the impact it will have on my future decision making. 40k in the grand scheme of things is nothing.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

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He is prob just upset and venting but it is in poor taste to call Strassa out publicly for "playing badly". Especially when if you aren't the one sitting in a game like that it's hard to criticize how someone else played a hand.

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I never once called him out publicly. I would never do that, and consider it in poor taste. I should have taken the specifics of the hands down, I didn't realize it would be that easy to figure it out. That wasn't smart on my part, and was not my intention. Removing them from my blog now...

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You are right, you didn't mention his name, and I didn't mean to insinuate that you did. You did post very detailed hands though which you obv realize now wasn't very smart. They were obvious enough that someone who had been railing would figure it out.

I'm sure everyone realizes you were just venting but it seems like the details should be kept private between you and Strassa to prevent something like this thread.

Anyway, lesson learned I'm sure and GL.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

dlp made a couple of big mistakes, admitted as such, and has handled himself pretty well here. Strassa is a smart young guy and top shelf talent. Getting a sincere public apology is about the best he could hope for and got it.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

fwiw gaucho... it was [censored] obvious who you were talking about, it didnt matter if you were using his name or not. You do realize that these games are like primetime tv right? If you mention 5 out of 6 of the players in a 2/4 game EVERYONE is going to know who the 6th player is.

And I do not understand why you are taking issue with the OP posting this... you posted it on a public blog! Did you not want people to read it or something?

To say that you weren't critisizing his play in your blog? Anyone who read this would definitely interpret your entry as critical of his play.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

[ QUOTE ]
fwiw gaucho... it was [censored] obvious who you were talking about, it didnt matter if you were using his name or not. You do realize that these games are like primetime tv right? If you mention 5 out of 6 of the players in a 2/4 game EVERYONE is going to know who the 6th player is.

And I do not understand why you are taking issue with the OP posting this... you posted it on a public blog! Did you not want people to read it or something?

To say that you weren't critisizing his play in your blog? Anyone who read this would definitely interpret your entry as critical of his play.

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Ansky, I reserve the right to criticize anyone's play on specific hands, or their overall play. I think J's overall play is top-notch, otherwise I wouldn't have taken a piece of him in the first place. His play on the hands is whatever, I personally would not have played the same, but then again, I don't win as much as Jason, and he knows this and therefore knows not to take any criticisms too seriously. I was steamed up when I wrote the blog, but even when I was on life tilt I still made sure to post that it was ME who made the mistake, not Jason. I was mad ONLY at myself, and that is it.

As stated, I sent him the 40k almost before he left the table.


EDIT: Also, I did NOT realize the extent to which these games were like primetime TV, and did not realize that people actually read my blog (other than my friends). I never in a million years thought a thread like this would happen, was obviously not my intention. I also would never mention J publicly and he knows this.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

Hasn't strassa made a ton of money from donkaments, plus his family is rich, so why would he need a stake? I don't get it, especially a stake from someone with less of a poker roll than his. Doesn't staking normally work when the successful players back the busto ones?

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

i took half his action. you can refer to this as taking a piece i guess, but i usually look at a "piece" as like 10% or 5% swap in a tourney or something. taking a 50% piece i usually refer to as staking. he has more $ than me, he just wanted to reduce the variance of a huge game, which is understandable.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

Gaucho sounds like a douche

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

I got 5 on strassa now they people think he is a fish...

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

lots of hating on strass lately.

have any of you guys who say "i think he is a tool...etc" in these recent threads, actually met the kid?

jason is great at life, and he has one of the best poker minds i have talked with.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

[ QUOTE ]
lots of hating on strass lately.

have any of you guys who say "i think he is a tool...etc" in these recent threads, actually met the kid?

jason is great at life, and he has one of the best poker minds i have talked with.

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i agree 100% fsu. I wasn't hating on him in the LEAST. I was very very very upset with myself, but was not mad at Jason at all, to be clear. I feel extremely lucky to have had him as a poker mentor and a friend. He is one of the best poker theorists and players I have ever met.

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

Gaucho is wrong in putting this in his blog and what was he thinking in the first play (no offense to strassa2 but I dont see any real weak spots in this (with maybe Benyamine as the exception). Is strassa2 real that good at 100/200+ blind pl/nl cash games?

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Gaucho is wrong in putting this in his blog and what was he thinking in the first play (no offense to strassa2 but I dont see any real weak spots in this (with maybe Benyamine as the exception). Is strassa2 real that good at 100/200+ blind pl/nl cash games?

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i thought the same thing when I first read the blog entry. But when i thought on it, id imagine strassa has a substantial edge in the long run, as he is def. better online NLHE than benyamine and obviously has an advantage vs. a nit (dunno anythiung about serb tho). I still think its very high variance for him, but I can understand the decision to take the risk. Strassa has a lot of experience with this type of thing (go read a few of his posts on shot taking) and im sure he played 100% and didn't let the stakes affect him.

That being said, strassa if u dont mind divulging, would u take the same shot again today were the circumstances exactly the same? is the risk vs. reward worth it? how big do u think ur edge was? any experience with DB before this?

Re: Anyone know who Gaucho staked in the FTP NL 200/400 game?
 

Gaucho made a mistake in his blog out of frustation, he admitted to it, so give it a break...

I think Strassa was definitely +Ev in that game, and I think anyone who could afford to would back him in that game without hesitation. That being said, I agree that Gauco made a poor decision if he couldn't handle the possible swings involved.