Donkey Test
 

There is a great little test on Poker at www.donkeytest.com and I thought it would be a good idea to discuss the questions here. If you haven't already, please take the test (I'm not selling it or anything, but there is an option to pay for some more in-depth analysis after you take it. But to get your score is free.)

After taking the test, I realized I have a lot of holes in my game I need to address. I scored average, and I think that is about right.

I will post the questions, one at a time, here. I will give us plenty of time to discuss. Please, I am here to learn the right way, so if you are clueless, just read along and let the better players give their thoughts. I also hope the owners of Donkey Test don't mind, since this should also bring people to their site who will pay for their services.

I would really appreciate it if some top players would comment, even on the apparently simple questions, so I could see where I am going wrong. Thank you very much. There are a total of 50 questions, and I estimate that at a question a day it will take about 2 months to go through them all, but it should be a fruitful experiment.

Re: Donkey Test
 

The worst hand HU all-in is 32o.

Even though 32o has one benefit over 72o, namely connectedness, the highcard strength of 72o against a random hand outweighs that.

Just to make this absolutely clear, here is what Pokerstove says:

equity win tie
Hand 0: 34.584% 31.71% 02.87% { 72o }
Hand 1: 65.416% 62.54% 02.87% { random }

equity win tie
Hand 0: 32.303% 29.24% 03.06% { 32o }
Hand 1: 67.697% 64.63% 03.06% { random }

Question 2
 

Since the first question was answered so well, and doesn't need much more discussion, I thought I'd go ahead and put the next two questions up. Again, feel free to answer the poll and post your answer along with the correct reasoning.

Question 3
 

Please remember to look at www.donkeytest.com

I'm not working for them, but I want to make sure they get sufficient publicity (along with cardrunners.com) since I am using their test as a basis for discussion.

Here is Question 3. The questions do get more difficult as we go along.

Re: Question 2
 

Has to be an instant fold here under the gun 9 handed. Calling is not an option neither is raising as in both cases you cant call a re-raise and are likely dominated if raised.
Hands like this will always cost you money as even if you hit the flop hard it will be difficult to make any money as you are OOP.

Re: Question 3
 

[ QUOTE ]
Please remember to look at www.donkeytest.com

I'm not working for them, but I want to make sure they get sufficient publicity (along with cardrunners.com) since I am using their test as a basis for discussion.

Here is Question 3. The questions do get more difficult as we go along.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would help if you knew what the original raiser did here.
But assuming that they folded (actually probably the same if they called), then i would fold (although im a nit) as at best you will be 55%-45% and worst around 20-80 (although the new breed of players may call if they are a coinflip at BEST)

Re: Question 3
 

The original middle position raiser folded. It's at the bottom of the question.

Re: Question 3
 

oh yea i see it now, still a fold though given the read here

Re: Question 3
 

Pot: $25 SB + $1500 BB + $200 Early raiser + $200 yours
$1300 to call

Total pot after call: $3225

Hand 0: 57.240% 57.04% 00.20% 293023920 1012998.00 { QQ+, AQs+, AQo+ }
Hand 1: 42.760% 42.56% 00.20% 218641284 1012998.00 { TT }

3225*.4256=1379.01 call

Hand 0: 59.891% 59.69% 00.20% 343427268 1147962.00 { JJ+, AQs+, AQo+ }
Hand 1: 40.109% 39.91% 00.20% 229610952 1147962.00 { TT }

3225*.40109=1293.51525 close fold

I chose call.

PS, I took this test a while ago, and I remember making a bunch of calls like these based on PStove analysis.

Re: Question 3
 

[ QUOTE ]

I chose call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Question 3
 

I guess question 3 could also be a call because MPs range for opening then folding is probably AJo, AJs, AQo, AQs 77-JJ so a couple bad cards could be dead.

Re: Question 3
 

[ QUOTE ]
Pot: $25 SB + $1500 BB + $200 Early raiser + $200 yours
$1300 to call

Total pot after call: $3225

Hand 0: 57.240% 57.04% 00.20% 293023920 1012998.00 { QQ+, AQs+, AQo+ }
Hand 1: 42.760% 42.56% 00.20% 218641284 1012998.00 { TT }

3225*.4256=1379.01 call

Hand 0: 59.891% 59.69% 00.20% 343427268 1147962.00 { JJ+, AQs+, AQo+ }
Hand 1: 40.109% 39.91% 00.20% 229610952 1147962.00 { TT }

3225*.40109=1293.51525 close fold

I chose call.

PS, I took this test a while ago, and I remember making a bunch of calls like these based on PStove analysis.

[/ QUOTE ]

I said call because it looks a lot like the short stack is making a squeeze play, so his range is probably a lot wider than the AK/AQ and JJ-AA that I've "seen" so far. So, the analysis that shows it's a close call if he does have AK/AQ and JJ-AA + the fact that he is in premium position to make a squeeze play with something like 87s, I call.

Re: Donkey Test
 

I took the test and got 120. It was actually pretty interesting.

Anybody actually pay the ten bucks for the full profile?

I'm tempted to buy it, but I really don't like giving my credit card info to some poker IQ web site I found in the 2+2 beginner's forum.

Thanks.

Question 4
 

Answer and post thoughts to question 4 please.

Re: Donkey Test
 

I don't think you'd have any security problems if you bought it. I think the site is affiliated with Cardrunners.com, and they are above board.

Re: Question 3
 

So I guess what we can say about Question 3 at this point is that it's a close decision, but maybe leaning toward a call?

When I am at the table and don't have pokerstove available, what thought process should I follow to make this decision?

Re: Question 3
 

[ QUOTE ]
So I guess what we can say about Question 3 at this point is that it's a close decision, but maybe leaning toward a call?

[/ QUOTE ]

I probably play too tight, but my thought is that this is so close that I'd rather wait and get my money in better than this.

Re: Question 4
 

Q4. Push. You have a very low M. You probably have the best hand or two over cards if somebody limped with a small pair 77-22. There is a ton of chips in the pot relative to your stack. Your stack is big enough to give you some fold equity. Unless one of the villains limped in with something like KQs and has a deep stack and wants to try and take you out, you probably won't get called as long as UTG doesn't wake up with a limp/reraise with a monster (which is unlikely given the read in the question).

Re: Question 4
 

Q4. Call. You are getting great immediate odds. Your stack is too small relative to the size of the pot for you to have any significant fold equity given three limpers. Ace eight is not that good when three players have limped. You can get your money in if you hit this flop, otherwise you have the button next hand.

Re: Question 4
 

[ QUOTE ]
Q4. Call. You are getting great immediate odds. Your stack is too small relative to the size of the pot for you to have any significant fold equity given three limpers. Ace eight is not that good when three players have limped. You can get your money in if you hit this flop, otherwise you have the button next hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling with this trashy hand is very bad. I think this is definately a push/fold situation.

Re: Question 4
 

On Q.4, I chose to push. There are a lot of chips in the pot now, I reasonably have the best hand, and no one has shown any agression. UTG has been limping with trash preflop and is likely to fold, and the other two players probably called with small pairs or suited connectors, or broadway cards that they don't want to call my push with. That's my thinking, anyway.

???

Re: Question 4
 

You most likely DO NOT have the best hand. Someone could easily have A 10 they didnt want to raise with but have no problem calling your all in. Also some poeple could be limping their monsters. Also a K J and a Q 10 calling your all-in and your basicly screwed (a likely situation). I would advise a call in this situation because your getting great odds for the completion of the blind with so much money already in the pot. Just my opinion from experience playing situations like these.

Re: Question 4
 

I think it depends on the quality of players in the tourney, in other words what the buy in is..limpers could have anything id be weary of pushin A8 with that many limpers, especially when ud have position next hand. Plus depending on the size of the stacks of all the limpers someone may feel like takin what they think is a coinflip with either a dominating hand or a pair. Either way, i think the question has to shine light on a few more details such as skill level, when the blinds increase, what the stacks are, etc, but based on the lack of detail id drop it.

Re: Question 4
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Q4. Call. You are getting great immediate odds. Your stack is too small relative to the size of the pot for you to have any significant fold equity given three limpers. Ace eight is not that good when three players have limped. You can get your money in if you hit this flop, otherwise you have the button next hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling with this trashy hand is very bad. I think this is definately a push/fold situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Easy push IMO, our stack is perfect for it.

If we had less chips, our fold equity goes down and I lean towards a fold. If we had more chips we'd be less desperate and can wait for a better spot.

Question 5
 

Re: Question 5
 

I think this is a fold. I'm getting around 2 to 1 on my call but the bottom line is that, if I call, I've just risked 1/3 of my stack on A9 off and likely just doubled up a short stack.

It's not really an option but shove or fold preflop - IMO.

Re: Question 5
 

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 43.357% 42.37% 00.98% 156719456 3638251.50 { Ah9c }
Hand 1: 56.643% 55.66% 00.98% 205861705 3638251.50 { 22+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

I think BB pushes with any pair, any broadway, since our raise looks like a steal. Gives us 43% equity in the pot, getting 2:1 on the call. I say call. If you have a better range on the BB, then maybe fold.

Re: Question 5
 

I say call.

I think that as a pure EV situation it's probably close to neutral. However, I'd rather not raise preflop and then fold to a reraise as it may encourage others to take a shot at me later.

Question 6
 

Question 6 seems obvious to me, so I decided to post it along with Question 7. Remember to vote and discuss if you want.

Question 7
 

Re: Question 7
 

Doyle says the 3rd re-raise is AA or KK. Since you have KK, the 3rd raiser most likely has AA. You got to see all of this before putting in much money. Get out cheap - Fold.

PokerStove:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 12.140% 12.14% 00.31% 1027738895 26051692.80 { 99+, AJs+, KJs+, QJs, AJo+, KJo+, QJo }
Hand 1: 13.715% 13.45% 00.62% 1138299638 52150334.80 { 77+, AJs+, AJo+ }
Hand 2: 17.894% 15.32% 03.03% 1296912063 256340992.80 { QQ+, AKs }
Hand 3: 44.092% 40.17% 05.06% 3399381316 427886071.30 { KK+ }
Hand 4: 12.159% 10.38% 02.09% 878440731 177014537.30 { KK }

We only have 12% equity in this pot.

question 28
 

you raise and get called by a tag player, and you have ak


$2000 stacks 5-10nl villian is tag.
flop is A K 8 you bet , he raises, you rearaise, he goes all in. do you call or fold.


i cant see myself folding here, but should i.

Re: Donkey Test
 

The donkey test is great, and I love this thread. It was well put together, and I think my average score was fairly accurate, however, I don't think a poker test should be timed. Taking away points for sitting back and thinking through a situation fully is wrong. Why was this a timed test? I know that regular IQ tests are timed, but a poker test should not be.

Re: Donkey Test
 

[ QUOTE ]
The donkey test is great, and I love this thread. It was well put together, and I think my average score was fairly accurate, however, I don't think a poker test should be timed. Taking away points for sitting back and thinking through a situation fully is wrong. Why was this a timed test? I know that regular IQ tests are timed, but a poker test should not be.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see why not... you are timed when you play at the table.

Re: Donkey Test
 

Online you are under legit time constraints, but this test rewards you for taking 5 sec. on avg. per question to make a decision vs. 15 sec. Also, this is another gripe, even though I'm finishing a degree in English and read all the time, if you're a slower reader- like I am (I sit and analyze each word or daydream)- then your score is being affected. Reading the texture of the board and reading your opponents are different sorts of reading than reading text (words) on a page or a computer screen. Poker is not really a test of how fast you can read. imo- it's not really about speed, but careful/ perceptive analysis
I'll admit, however, that when you're multi-tabling online, making quick decisions is important to a good hourly rate- the quicker you are the more tables you can play.

Maybe I'm wrong about how the donkey test is graded, but as I remember time is a factor into the score. I understand also that there is no perfect test, other than years of play and the money you pull in.

This was the best poker test I've taken.

* the thread seems to have fallen by the wayside, also, maybe there was too little interest/ was looking forward to more analysis

Re: Question 7
 

[ QUOTE ]
Doyle says the 3rd re-raise is AA or KK. Since you have KK, the 3rd raiser most likely has AA. You got to see all of this before putting in much money. Get out cheap - Fold.

PokerStove:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 12.140% 12.14% 00.31% 1027738895 26051692.80 { 99+, AJs+, KJs+, QJs, AJo+, KJo+, QJo }
Hand 1: 13.715% 13.45% 00.62% 1138299638 52150334.80 { 77+, AJs+, AJo+ }
Hand 2: 17.894% 15.32% 03.03% 1296912063 256340992.80 { QQ+, AKs }
Hand 3: 44.092% 40.17% 05.06% 3399381316 427886071.30 { KK+ }
Hand 4: 12.159% 10.38% 02.09% 878440731 177014537.30 { KK }

We only have 12% equity in this pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can someone please explain this calculation? Sorry, I'm lost.

Re: Question 7
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Doyle says the 3rd re-raise is AA or KK. Since you have KK, the 3rd raiser most likely has AA. You got to see all of this before putting in much money. Get out cheap - Fold.

PokerStove:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 12.140% 12.14% 00.31% 1027738895 26051692.80 { 99+, AJs+, KJs+, QJs, AJo+, KJo+, QJo }
Hand 1: 13.715% 13.45% 00.62% 1138299638 52150334.80 { 77+, AJs+, AJo+ }
Hand 2: 17.894% 15.32% 03.03% 1296912063 256340992.80 { QQ+, AKs }
Hand 3: 44.092% 40.17% 05.06% 3399381316 427886071.30 { KK+ }
Hand 4: 12.159% 10.38% 02.09% 878440731 177014537.30 { KK }

We only have 12% equity in this pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can someone please explain this calculation? Sorry, I'm lost.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.pokerstove.com/pokerstove/faq.php

Re: Question 7
 

Thank you very much.

Re: Question 7
 

Post more questions! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Question 7
 

i got 118 points. is that good, bad or average? anyone? i really don't want to pay 10 bucks for the results :P