British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

Britain’s crisis with Iran deepened last night after Tehran justified seizing 15 British servicemen by claiming that they had strayed into Iranian territorial waters “illegally”.

The announcement appeared to rule out any hope that the incident was a simple mistake that could be quickly rectified.

Instead, there were growing fears that the 15 British sailors and Royal Marines were victims of a deliberate ambush on the disputed Shatt al-Arab waterway by Iranian Revolutionary Guards, perhaps seeking to use the captives as hostages in the increasingly tense stand-off between the West and Iran over its nuclear programme.

Link to Times article

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

super!

This is the 2nd time thishas happened.
 

This is the 2nd time this has happened.
The last incident happen about a year ago where the Iranians seize some British soldiers training Iraqis to patrol the river that borders Iran....they released the soldiers but kept the patrol craft. The Iranians are using the same excuse as last time, the British aledgedly strayed into Iranian waters. I don't believe the Iranian story. For the British to stray into Iranian waters a 2nd time is just not credible to me...

First the Iranians are being incredibly STUPID!
They are giving the USA/UK causi belli to respond militarily.

Second, the USA and especially the British are even MORE stupid if they don't up the antes on the Iranians with a military response. Bush has an excuse to bomb the Iranians and the Iranians have given him an excuse on a silver platter.... Time to "redeploy" B2 Bombers over Iran...

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

The time has come to invade Iran.

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

[ QUOTE ]
The time has come to invade Iran.

[/ QUOTE ]
The US army is too small to invade iran. We could take them over but we don't have enough troops to occupy their country properly.

A better solution is to fire-bomb their oil fields.
*No oil
*No cash to fund terrorism in Iraq and in Lebanon.

We have lots of B2 bombers collecting dust that can make Iran look like a birthday cake. In addition to humbling Iran and crushing their economy it would serve a tertiary purpose to rally the USA around George W. Bush. Do it Georgie! Do it! Don't be a p****. The Repubs can sweep back into office in 2008! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The time has come to invade Iran.

[/ QUOTE ]
The US army is too small to invade iran. We could take them over but we don't have enough troops to occupy their country properly.

A better solution is to fire-bomb their oil fields.
*No oil
*No cash to fund terrorism in Iraq and in Lebanon.

We have lots of B2 bombers collecting dust that can make Iran look like a birthday cake. In addition to humbling Iran and crushing their economy it would serve a tertiary purpose to rally the USA around George W. Bush. Do it Georgie! Do it! Don't be a p****. The Repubs can sweep back into office in 2008! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I never suggested occupying Iran, just bombing them back to the stone age would suffice [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

[ QUOTE ]


A better solution is to fire-bomb their oil fields.
*No oil
*No cash to fund terrorism in Iraq and in Lebanon.



[/ QUOTE ]

My sarcasm meter is going off the scale....

If this ever happens I am going to buy the biggest mostest CO2 polluting car I can find and refuse to pay road tax.

Mr Blair - if you care so little about the state of the planet that we live on to cause 1000's of tonnes of pollutants to get released into the atmosphere by firebombing oil fields - then how can you charge me extra monies for driving a large car?

I think Iran is looking for a fight - and the world is infinitely stupid if we give them one - but what do I know.

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

this happened in 2004 - they let the troops go - of course, that was before we tried to tell them we can have nukes and they can't or else we'll kill them.

won't give GWB his casus belli I don't think.

rb

bbc news from 2004

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

These troops are important enough to cause an international crisis. Britian is much more than America's dearest friend. We have stood side by side for the last century. I was shocked that it was not the lead news story on all the networks and cable TV.

Iran will release them in a few days, hopefully unharmed. The leaders of Iran are dumb enough to think England is a small country they can pick on. I think America will stand behind anything England wants to do. I hope so.

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

[ QUOTE ]
The leaders of Iran are dumb enough to think England is a small country they can pick on. I think America will stand behind anything England wants to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know how many thousand such incidents there has been previously between different countries. It almost always ends up peacefully. It is more a matter of routine than a crisis.

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

UPDATE: Britian admits its troops were in Iranian Waters.

UPDATE 2: This conflict (US vs. Iraq and Iran) is decreasing US military power, possibly irrevocably.
-----------
Who said:

A better solution is to fire-bomb their oil fields.
*No oil
*No cash to fund terrorism in Iraq and in Lebanon.

?
?
?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will 'fire bombing' Iran's oil fields increase the amount of money available to Iraqi anti-occupationalists or decrease it?

----------------
A good general knows when to cut his losses.

Did anyone see the debate on Cspan yesterday? That tiny old republican man who was bragging about being in a Vietnamese prison is was begging congress to keep the spigot of easy money open to his party's contractor contributors.

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

[ QUOTE ]
Mr Blair - if you care so little about the state of the planet that we live on to cause 1000's of tonnes of pollutants to get released into the atmosphere by firebombing oil fields - then how can you charge me extra monies for driving a large car?

[/ QUOTE ]
Ever hear of WW2?
The bombing of the Ploesti oil fields. These oil fields were fire bombed...MULTIPLE TIMES.
Millions of "Exxxon Valdez" being sunk by submarines all over the Atlantic, Indian, and Pacific oceans....

Or how about Gulf War I. Saddam burned the Kuwaiti oil fields. Nature knows how to clean up man's messes. Burning the Persian oil fields to the ground is nothing compared to what happened in WW2. Time to stop watching that fiction called "An Inconvienient Truth".

So go ahead and buy a Hummer2 and be guilt free.

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

[ QUOTE ]
UPDATE: Britian admits its troops were in Iranian Waters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Canis, this is really misleading, even for you. If by this you mean that the sailors in custody have supposedly "admitted" to being in iranian water, then yes, but, umm, wouldn't you admit that to avoid being tortured and killed?

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

[ QUOTE ]

So go ahead and buy a Hummer2 and be guilt free.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least one guy argues the Prius owners hate the environment:
link

[ QUOTE ]
Spinella's finding that a Hummer on the whole consumes less energy than a hybrid than even some smaller hybrids and non-hybrids has infuriated environmentalists

[/ QUOTE ]

Prius: energy cost $3.25 / mile
H3 (9 mpg!): energy cost $1.95 / mile

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

[ QUOTE ]
Britain’s crisis with Iran deepened last night after Tehran justified seizing 15 British servicemen by claiming that they had strayed into Iranian territorial waters “illegally”.

The announcement appeared to rule out any hope that the incident was a simple mistake that could be quickly rectified.

Instead, there were growing fears that the 15 British sailors and Royal Marines were victims of a deliberate ambush on the disputed Shatt al-Arab waterway by Iranian Revolutionary Guards, perhaps seeking to use the captives as hostages in the increasingly tense stand-off between the West and Iran over its nuclear programme.

[/ QUOTE ]

We have some Iranian soldiers in custody(captured in Iraq). The Iranians will try to negotiate an exchange. I don't think its going to happen though. We will probably go out an capture some more iranians instead and then offer to exchange those.

Stu

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
UPDATE: Britian admits its troops were in Iranian Waters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Canis, this is really misleading, even for you. If by this you mean that the sailors in custody have supposedly "admitted" to being in iranian water, then yes, but, umm, wouldn't you admit that to avoid being tortured and killed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you prove this happened to the sailors? I refuse to believe that Iran is completely in the wrong and Britain in the right, as all the US news coverage would want me to believe. I need to do some more research, then I'll be better prepared to defend my position.

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
UPDATE: Britian admits its troops were in Iranian Waters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Canis, this is really misleading, even for you. If by this you mean that the sailors in custody have supposedly "admitted" to being in iranian water, then yes, but, umm, wouldn't you admit that to avoid being tortured and killed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you prove this happened to the sailors? I refuse to believe that Iran is completely in the wrong and Britain in the right, as all the US news coverage would want me to believe. I need to do some more research, then I'll be better prepared to defend my position.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying this is the case, but Canis presented it as if Britain has admitted being in Iranian Waters. This has absolutely not happenned, or if it has, it is not being reported by any mainstream media sources at this moment.

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
UPDATE: Britian admits its troops were in Iranian Waters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Canis, this is really misleading, even for you. If by this you mean that the sailors in custody have supposedly "admitted" to being in iranian water, then yes, but, umm, wouldn't you admit that to avoid being tortured and killed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you prove this happened to the sailors? I refuse to believe that Iran is completely in the wrong and Britain in the right, as all the US news coverage would want me to believe. I need to do some more research, then I'll be better prepared to defend my position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is anyone else surprised that the blame-America first crowd feels this way?

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
UPDATE: Britian admits its troops were in Iranian Waters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Canis, this is really misleading, even for you. If by this you mean that the sailors in custody have supposedly "admitted" to being in iranian water, then yes, but, umm, wouldn't you admit that to avoid being tortured and killed?

[/ QUOTE ]

You really think that they could be tortured and killed? Just wow. Some of you should really learn a bit about the theatrics of international diplomacy before posting.

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

*Edit/Jman220: Edited to Fix the Link:

LINK

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

i believe there are amiguities surrounding the 'ownership' of the waterway in question. I have a feeling this will end with Iran maintaining there waterways were breached, Britain denying it, and no way for either side to convince Iran will let the troops go, unharmed, with no concessions made by Britain or America. I suspect that this was Irans intention from the outset, and they will let them go as a B.S. 'show of good faith' a powerplay of sorts to show the internaitonal community that they can be reasonable, and will play ball.

Syria does this type of thing from time to time. They will have a phony 'terrorist bust' where they kill some alleged al quaeda members to prove they can be an ally in the war on terror. It is realy a ploy to improve ones position in negotiations. sometime down the line iran will point to the time they released 15 soldiers who incurred on their waterways and asked for nothing in return.

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

[ QUOTE ]
i believe there are amiguities surrounding the 'ownership' of the waterway in question.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think there is any disagreement about the border, but parts of it follows the thalweg, so it is hard to see where it actually is. Maybe the Iranians found a place where it takes a westernly curve and arrested them or the British had found a spot where it takes an easternly curve which the Iranian soldiers were not aware of.

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
UPDATE: Britian admits its troops were in Iranian Waters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Canis, this is really misleading, even for you. If by this you mean that the sailors in custody have supposedly "admitted" to being in iranian water, then yes, but, umm, wouldn't you admit that to avoid being tortured and killed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you prove this happened to the sailors? I refuse to believe that Iran is completely in the wrong and Britain in the right, as all the US news coverage would want me to believe. I need to do some more research, then I'll be better prepared to defend my position.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a little tit for tat going on:

IRAN is threatening to retaliate in Europe for what it claims is a daring undercover operation by western intelligence services to kidnap senior officers in its Revolutionary Guard.

According to Iranian sources, several officers have been abducted in the past three months and the United States has drawn up a list of other targets to be seized with the aim of destabilising Tehran’s military command.

In an article in Subhi Sadek, the Revolutionary Guard’s weekly paper, Reza Faker, a writer believed to have close links to President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, warned that Iran would strike back.

“We’ve got the ability to capture a nice bunch of blue-eyed blond-haired officers and feed them to our fighting [censored],” he said. “Iran has enough people who can reach the heart of Europe and kidnap Americans and Israelis.”

The first sign of a possible campaign against high-ranking Iranian officers emerged earlier this month with the discovery that Ali Reza Asgari, former commander of the Revolutionary Guard’s elite Quds Force in Lebanon and deputy defence minister, had vanished, apparently during a trip to Istanbul.

Asgari’s disappearance shocked the Iranian regime as he is believed to possess some of its most closely guarded secrets. The Quds Force is responsible for operations outside Iran.

Last week it was revealed that Colonel Amir Muhammed Shirazi, another high-ranking Revolutionary Guard officer, had disappeared, probably in Iraq.

A third Iranian general is also understood to be missing — the head of the Revolutionary Guard in the Persian Gulf. Sources named him as Brigadier General Muhammed Soltani, but his identity could not be confirmed.

Iran to Hit Back at US Kidnappings

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

Whiskey

Do you believe the threat from the USA having nuclear capabilities is the moral equivalent of Iran having them?

If so, justify your position, please.

The mind boggles.

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
UPDATE: Britian admits its troops were in Iranian Waters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Canis, this is really misleading, even for you. If by this you mean that the sailors in custody have supposedly "admitted" to being in iranian water, then yes, but, umm, wouldn't you admit that to avoid being tortured and killed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah! We are talking torture now! What, like renditions and Guantamo? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

[ QUOTE ]
Britian is much more than America's dearest friend. We have stood side by side for the last century. I was shocked that it was not the lead news story on all the networks and cable TV.

[/ QUOTE ]


Was it on all the network and cable TV that the US refused to cooperate in an investigation of friendly fire which resulted in british soldiers being killed by american fire. Dearesr friends??? LOL. The US has no dearest friends any longer, it is now US economic interests that drives its foreign relationships.

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

The report cites an Iranian source that claims the British admitted to being in Iranian waters. The British did not admit to trespassing.

FWIW, the British were on a UN missiion interdicting smugglers.

IMO, the Iranians have made this move, because of the vote that the UN Security Council is making today to tighten sanctions today in response to the Iranian nuclear program.

Update: The vote was unaminous to tighten the sanctions.

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

Sorry, I was working from the Drudge headline that said "Britons admit being in Iranian Water". Or something to that effect.

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

The British has specifically said that they have GPS proof that the soldiers were in Iraqi waters.

Midge. I don't like you.

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

There was an article written on the BBC saying that in essence these troops are told say agree to say whatever, as long as not giving away secrets, if they want them on TV admitting to being in Iranian waters then to do it, the priority is to get released safely.

Iran Reveals Their Objective
 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1563877.ece
The Iranian play is now transparent. The USA and UK have captured Iranian spies in Iraq supporting the insurgency. Iran wants these people back. So they kidnap some British and insist upon a "spy" exchange. Just like the Soviets-USA did only several occasions. This is an OUTRAGOUS move since by defintion uniform-wearing-soldiers can NOT be spies.

I am feeling good about this situation. Iran is OVERPLAYING their hand badly and is giving the USA/UK the excuse on a silver platter to bomb their nuclear installations. I will FEEL SICK, is Blair/Bush43 puss-out.

Damn, I\'m Smart!
 

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/tm_he...-name_page.html
Damn I'm smart! Mods I propose that my title should be changed to "Modern Day Cassandra".

Cassandra was cursed by Apollo to see the future but with the stipulation that no one would ever believe her....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra

Not that a blind drunk couldn't see the game the Iranians are playing.....

Re: Damn, I\'m Smart!
 

It's really almost as if Iran wants a war, and their threats such as, "we will attack with everything in our arsenal."
scare me.

It's almost as if they have nukes, and are looking for a reason to use them (even though it's very unlikely), maybe some other WMD's such as chemical/biological?

They really can't think that their military could stand up to any sort of US/EU coalition force that would result from these kidnappings, if this escalates.

I'm pretty sure that back in the day this would be an automatic declaration of war.

Re: Damn, I\'m Smart!
 

Nah--it's more of a show of force to the Iranian government telling its citizens that they are strong and in a position of strength. The soldiers will be let go in due time and this incident will be like it never happened (until it happens again).

Re: Damn, I\'m Smart!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nah--it's more of a show of force to the Iranian government telling its citizens that they are strong and in a position of strength. The soldiers will be let go in due time and this incident will be like it never happened (until it happens again).

[/ QUOTE ]

The have to think there is a very real possibility that they will be attacked. We have two carrier groups in the Persian Gulf, and 250,000 troops in the vicinity (135,000 in Iraq).

Show of strength or not, it's as if they have concept of the consequences If a war breaks out, I'm fairly sure this one will be widely backed by Nato/EU/US/UN.

I was also looking at the modern UK Navy expecting to see a modern fleet, and the [censored] that they have floating on the water looks like the crap our Coast Guard is using. Old 1960's era boats (and very few of them at that), and I was confused as this is a country that has always had a strong navy.

Re: Damn, I\'m Smart!
 

This is the Middle East we are talking about--the best analogy is the big bad wolf huffing and puffing and trying to blow down a steel house and hoping it rattles a few feathers.

They are not stupid enough to incite an attack with their actions--it is much easier to rally a country when you are attacked "unprovoked" instead of doing something so overt to incite the attack. Saddam found that out after he attacked Kuwait and his soldiers just got out of the way for us.

1941 Japan and 2007 Iran
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's really almost as if Iran wants a war, and their threats such as, "we will attack with everything in our arsenal." scare me.

[/ QUOTE ]
The Iranians feel emboldened and they think Bush/Blair will cave. The recent election failures of 'Bush's political party' have made the Iranians think they can make this power play work.

Consider the Pearl Harbor thread that was posted today. Every poster agree the Japanese were STUUUPID to attack the USA. Looking back is seems incredible they could be so dumb. The modern Iranians are not much smarter than the Japanese political leadership in 1941. They are over-playing their hand badly. Now the ball is in Blair/Bush's court.....

I hope Bush/Blair realize this is a heaven-sent "respect opprtunity" to "redeploy" bombers over Iranian airspace.
The causi belli prerequisite has been satsified.

Re: 1941 Japan and 2007 Iran
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's really almost as if Iran wants a war, and their threats such as, "we will attack with everything in our arsenal." scare me.

[/ QUOTE ]
The Iranians feel emboldened and they think Bush/Blair will cave. The recent election failures of 'Bush's political party' have made the Iranians think they can make this power play work.

Consider the Pearl Harbor thread that was posted today. Every poster agree the Japanese were STUUUPID to attack the USA. Looking back is seems incredible they could be so dumb. The modern Iranians are not much smarter than the Japanese political leadership in 1941. They are over-playing their hand badly. Now the ball is in Blair/Bush's court.....

I hope Bush/Blair realize this is a heaven-sent "respect opprtunity" to "redeploy" bombers over Iranian airspace.
The causi belli prerequisite has been satsified.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the Iranian leadership views the U.S. as having too much on its plate, and as being politically divided. Therefore I will guess that Iran will keep pushing the envelope, as it were, in various ways, unless it becomes apparent that they really are about to be attacked.

edited: I read that England is saying they have GPS proof that their sailors were in Iraqi waters. A quick search failed to find the link, though.

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

[ QUOTE ]
Britain’s crisis with Iran deepened last night after Tehran justified seizing 15 British servicemen by claiming that they had strayed into Iranian territorial waters “illegally”.

The announcement appeared to rule out any hope that the incident was a simple mistake that could be quickly rectified.

Instead, there were growing fears that the 15 British sailors and Royal Marines were victims of a deliberate ambush on the disputed Shatt al-Arab waterway by Iranian Revolutionary Guards, perhaps seeking to use the captives as hostages in the increasingly tense stand-off between the West and Iran over its nuclear programme.

Link to Times article

[/ QUOTE ]


British national 'defense' agents get captured in Iranian waters.

Right...

Maybe a good question would be: what the hell are they doing there.


All of this reeks of course of all prior initiated conflicts by the west. Vietnam, WWI, WWII, etc.

Re: British troops seized by Iranian Revolutionary Guard
 

[ QUOTE ]
The British Government says the sailors were in Iraqi waters, a claim supported by Commander Kevin Andal, US Navy fifth fleet spokesman, which helps maintain security in Iraqi waters.

"We've been operating in those waters for some years now and all our ship commanders who are participating in the coalition are under clear understanding," he said.

"Our charts are very accurate and up-to-date, as well as our GPS information.

"We know where the lines are and we respect those lines and we don't cross them."

[/ QUOTE ]