Stop Loss Losing Sessions???
 

Ok, so I just endured a beating of a session. Getting sucked out on with over pair to river 3 out 2 pairs and what have you. The worst was three handed, turned second nut flush, action capped, river blank, call river bet to see both my opponents with flush and of course one had the nut.

That aside, sorry it prob should have been in bbv, but I needed a minute to rant/set up my question.

When is it time to call a session quits even when you know you are playing your A game, but just can't seem to get anything going and are taking a beating??? Thanks.

Re: Stop Loss Losing Sessions???
 

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When is it time to call a session quits even when you know you are playing your A game, but just can't seem to get anything going and are taking a beating??? Thanks.

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If the game is still good and you're playing well then you stay. Simple. Some of my biggest winning sessions have started out with 75BB drops.

Re: Stop Loss Losing Sessions???
 

There were two good articles arguing for and against 'money management' techniques such as stop losses. The gist of it is that if you have an edge and are playing well, even if you are getting killed you should keep going because you will win in the long run. On the other side of the coin, after getting killed you probably /aren't/ playing your A game or you don't realize why you don't have an edge. Any hard and fast rules are pretty arbitrary.

Re: Stop Loss Losing Sessions???
 

If the table is good and your able to continue playing your A game, I think it's good to stay. Sometimes it's hard to continue playing your best game due to fustration or annoyance, etc., and then it would probably be better to leave.

Re: Stop Loss Losing Sessions???
 

The more you get sucked out by bad players, the longer you have to stay [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Stop Loss Losing Sessions???
 

As soon as you realize you are tilting you should get up from the table. If you are not tilting and realize you are still in a profitable game there is no reason to quit. From the opening post it sounds like these suckouts had an impact on your emotional state so it would probably make sense to sit out or take a break.

Re: Stop Loss Losing Sessions???
 

I have pretty good control of my tilt these days, however during some sessions every now and then I just can't win. I will be sitting with two 50+/0-5 or 15-25 guys to my right and play close to perfect and still lose time after time as a huge favorite.

I understand that there can and shouldn't be any set in stone rules about when to keep playing and when to stop. And, I appreciate all of your comments and agree with the idea of stopping when you don't have an edge or are tilting.

However, sometimes it just feels like something else is going on. I don't think it is collusion as I will get sucked out on with dominating hands, so I don't really know what it is? I think I may just need to understand running bad a little more...?

Thanks adsman for your reply, and I've had similar results where I drop up to 100bb and finish up nice on the day, but some sessions have noooo hope!?!

Re: Stop Loss Losing Sessions???
 

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When is it time to call a session quits even when you know you are playing your A game, but just can't seem to get anything going and are taking a beating??? Thanks.

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If the game is still good and you're playing well then you stay. Simple. Some of my biggest winning sessions have started out with 75BB drops.

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When I sucked and only played like 1 table I used to stop after I lost a certain amount. Playing 3-4 tables it's too hard to keep track of what I'm up or down exactly, not to mention that the quicker and bigger I lose, the better the table probably is. These days the session ends when I'm either tired, I've played a good amount and my tables all broke and the rest of the ones I have open suck or I have school work to do.

Re: Stop Loss Losing Sessions???
 

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There were two good articles arguing for and against 'money management' techniques such as stop losses.

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Do you have a link to these, or were they in publications?

Re: Stop Loss Losing Sessions???
 

If losing is effecting me emotionally (tilt) i will take a break. Usually though if I get stuck it just means I have to play longer because i hate to see red numbers for the day. That being said... sometimes winning a bunch tilts me to "play my rush" and i end up giving some back.

I basically spend every session that i play monitoring myself to make sure i am playing "my game" and not my feelings.

Re: Stop Loss Losing Sessions???
 

def sit out for an orbit or two, then decide if you really want to keep playing. the games will likely be good a few hours later, and clearing your mind can help a lot. unless you are playing with an uberfish literally giving money away, dont feel too obligated to stay just cuz you have an edge

Re: Stop Loss Losing Sessions???
 

If you are so disturbed by some losses that you are ranting about it there is almost no way you are not at leasat somewhat tilted and are not, even if you feel you are, on your A game. Take a few hour break and the game will still be there (for the most part) when you come back refreshed. This is one of my main problems too so I know exactly how you feel.

Re: Stop Loss Losing Sessions???
 

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When is it time to call a session quits even when you know you are playing your A game, but just can't seem to get anything going and are taking a beating??? Thanks.

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If the game is still good and you're playing well then you stay. Simple. Some of my biggest winning sessions have started out with 75BB drops.

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Maybe I have selective memory but I feel like I never finish in the black at a table after I'm down 10 bets. I've started to leave after losing 30 & felt pretty good about it, not withstanding the realization that it's mathematically "incorrect".

Re: Stop Loss Losing Sessions???
 

tilt effects me strangely ... i don't get bent out of shape when something standard happens like aces cracked or having my set outdrawn because im just as liable to do the same. What does "get" me is when i notice a weird sense of inevitability or invulnerability. That sense leads to leaks like not charging draws or taking huge chances drawing.

I'm not saying i dont ever bang the mouse around when someone hits a backdoor flush against my flopped set when they had no pair....but i usually can just make a note and move on in that situation.

Re: Stop Loss Losing Sessions???
 

Here's something Schneids said on a different forum that got me thinking that *maybe* there is more good than bad with stop losses..

"What I do know is this: Almost every poker pro I know would be a richer person if they had quit their bad sessions sooner than they did. Almost every person who's opinion I respect also agrees with this statement.

Yeah, it's tough to quit when the game is super good and you're running super bad. But it's probably best to quit sooner than you feel it's right to."

Coming from NLHE, it seems like 3-5 buyin swings can be normal, and I have come back from some pretty dismal places. There are also times I wished I would have quit after dropping a buyin and getting that "And the nightmare begins" kind of feeling.

I read in Aba's blog that he is adopting a strict, 3 buyin stop loss limit heads up. He learned that from another great player - Phil Ivey.

Like I said, maybe there is more to it than I first thought?

Re: Stop Loss Losing Sessions???
 

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When is it time to call a session quits even when you know you are playing your A game, but just can't seem to get anything going and are taking a beating??? Thanks.

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As long as you play your A-game and feel you have an edge it should be correct to continue. The problem is (at least for me) that's almost impossible to be honest to yourself whether you play your A-game or not. Sit out an orbit. Your mind will get clearer almst the second your eyes moves away from the screen. Then decide.

Re: Stop Loss Losing Sessions???
 

I havent read the whole thread

But i would rather work on tilt control than spend time figuring out the number of BB's I can stand to loose.


Just dont tilt!

Re: Stop Loss Losing Sessions???
 

Schneids has often said that he owes a lot of success to playing short sessions while losing and long sessions while winning. I think this is the best strategy.

When you're losing, the chances of these factors happening increase -
* You have a poor image which encourages your opponents to play more optimally against you.
* You might think the game is "good", but the real story is that you are the underdog against this lineup but you don't realize it or understand why.
* Your opponents' strategies might be individually terrible, but mesh together in a way that reduces your EV. (See Chapter 29, The Mathematics of Poker.)
* You are on tilt and making poor decisions without realizing it.

Re: Stop Loss Losing Sessions???
 

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Schneids has often said that he owes a lot of success to playing short sessions while losing and long sessions while winning. I think this is the best strategy.


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Maybe that would be an easier way to look at it. Right now I play hours, not results, but your results are affected by your image and how you are running card-wise.

I'm just worried that it seems like a bit of a catch 22 though, in that sometimes I might have gotten off to a bad start for the first 1/2 hour or hour, and then came back. Of course there have been days when the loss I took in the first 1/2 would have been MUCH less than the one I took because I kept playing.

Thanks for the great input so far, too. I really appreciate it!