Craps. Betting Don\'t Pass
 

Was glancing through the wizardofodds and noticed that in craps the house edge is lower by betting Don't Pass/Don't Come compared to Pass/Come. Would I catch a lot of flack from other players for betting this since its 'against' the shooter? Craps players are known to be a superstitious bunch.

Re: Craps. Betting Don\'t Pass
 

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Depends a lot on how the table is running. If everyone keeps losing money and you're raking it in, you might get some snide looks and remarks but I wouldn't worry about it. No one's gonna jump you in the parking lot for it.

The Doc

Re: Craps. Betting Don\'t Pass
 

Yes, the Don't side is a few hundredths less in house edge.

One way to avoid table peer pressure is to not bet the Don't Pass. Wait until the shooter establishes a point. Then bet the Don't Come.

If the shooter rolls craps while trying to make his point, you win, but the shooter doesn't lose. If he doesn't make his point, you win, but you are not winning directly off his miss.

If the shooter makes his point, he wins, you don't care. The plus on this is on the new come-out roll, if he rolls a 7, the shooter wins and you win too since don't bets are working on the come-out.

This way you avoid some of the direct opposition.

Re: Craps. Betting Don\'t Pass
 

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Yes, the Don't side is a few hundredths less in house edge.

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If my memory serves me right, at a standard 3/4/5x odds table, the pass line is like ~.36 house edge, and the don't pass is like ~.28 house edge. So its a few hundreths but its also almost a full third better. When I play craps, I bet don't almost exclusively (but I'm a nit).

The Doc

Re: Craps. Betting Don\'t Pass
 

Odds don't matter, that is an even money bet, 0% EV

The house edge is all in the pass/don't pass bet:
-1.4141% PASS
-1.3636% DON'T PASS

The difference in the bets is .0505%

Re: Craps. Betting Don\'t Pass
 

[ QUOTE ]
Odds don't matter, that is an even money bet, 0% EV

The house edge is all in the pass/don't pass bet:
-1.4141% PASS
-1.3636% DON'T PASS

The difference in the bets is .0505%

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but my EV at the table depends entirely on how many times odds I take.

The Doc

Re: Craps. Betting Don\'t Pass
 

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my EV at the table depends entirely on how many times odds I take.

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no, your EV is the same on the pass/don't pass no matter if you take no odds or 100000000x odds.

do you see why?

Re: Craps. Betting Don\'t Pass
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
my EV at the table depends entirely on how many times odds I take.

[/ QUOTE ]
no, your EV is the same on the pass/don't pass no matter if you take no odds or 100000000x odds.

do you see why?

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We're splitting hairs. I said my EV at the table, you said my EV on the pass line. Clearly my EV on the pass line is unchanged by the odds. But what is important to me is the overall house edge while I'm at the craps table, which will be influenced by how many times odds I take, whether i bet the hardways, etc.

The Doc

Re: Craps. Betting Don\'t Pass
 

that's a pretty thick hair you've got if you think the terms EV and house edge are interchangeable.

Re: Craps. Betting Don\'t Pass
 

nits

Re: Craps. Betting Don\'t Pass
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
my EV at the table depends entirely on how many times odds I take.

[/ QUOTE ]
no, your EV is the same on the pass/don't pass no matter if you take no odds or 100000000x odds.

do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

We're splitting hairs. I said my EV at the table, you said my EV on the pass line. Clearly my EV on the pass line is unchanged by the odds. But what is important to me is the overall house edge while I'm at the craps table, which will be influenced by how many times odds I take, whether i bet the hardways, etc.

The Doc

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's safer to refer to your overall expectation (a composite) than to refer to your EV. In a -EV game, the more you can wager at zero EV, the better your expectation on the handle. The handle is what will generally determine your player status and comps -- which is important to -EV players.

You can cut this edge so thin -- that if the dealer makes a minor mistake once an hour, you're +EV.