Politics - An Ultimate and Inevitable Victory
 

Well, it's been a week. The new regime is settling in. The itchy trigger finger has subsided a bit. Is it too early to look for signs of progress?

There were no "official" goals for this project, but we've heard plently of whining about the personal attacks (a strawman, since those were being taken care of very ably before the new pooh-bahs arrived) and the need for more refined discourse (the "tea party objection").

We've been told there are hordes of "smart posters" who have been waiting to join us in politics, but have been turned off by the smell of raw sewage. A large majority of the blame was placed at the feet of anarchocapitalists, even though the only example given of the offensive behavior attributed to that group was actually committed by a dyed-in-the-wool, true-blue commie (blue is the new red, right?). But that's really neither here nor there.

Anyway, I went back and looked at OP's by new posters since the new regime took power. Let's see what we've gotten.

Does The Government Oppose Vegetarianism?

The Great Global Warming Swindle (Video) (locked, then later unlocked)

OBAMAPALOOZA? (no responses)

My personal favorite: Was watching Bush speak the other day and was struck by a thought.. (locked)

war w/ Iran

Is insurance always evil/stupid? (moved)

Dubya... (locked (in thirteen minutes!))

So, where are the promised masses of "smart posters"? Where are all the big shot repected 2+2er's who love to remind us how they'd love to post in politics, but can't be bothered by the riff raff? The streets are clean, come on in!

HOWEVER, there are a few bright points! We do have this well-thought-out gem, complete with "elevated discourse". Unfortunately, the poster is apparently a budding anarchocapitalist. This is a huge problem because the message all along has been that the ACers are the ones stinking the place up, keeping out the new "smart" posters.

Well, the proof is in the pudding. New posters did come; they just aren't who any of the powers-that-be thought they would be.

Re: Politics - An Ultimate and Inevitable Victory
 

pvn,

I'll be there soon enough. Been busy. Thx for the concern mang.

Re: Politics - An Ultimate and Inevitable Victory
 

pvn,

New, smart posters that come to politics for the first time (or return after a hiatus) don't only start new threads. They also post intelligent replies to threads started by others. I know I'm not the most brilliant political debater ever, but I added some reasonable discourse to a few threads, none of which I started. Looking only at crappy threads started by low post count n00bs and neglecting the well-thought-out replies to threads started by regulars is not at all a fair analysis of the change in population.

Re: Politics - An Ultimate and Inevitable Victory
 

Not to mention, the "budding" ACer he mentioned didn't post in politics prior to last week. At all.

Re: Politics - An Ultimate and Inevitable Victory
 

I dont even get the point of this thread.

Re: Politics - An Ultimate and Inevitable Victory
 

Well, since it's pvn posting in ATF, you can assume that the gist of the post is that the mods suck.

Re: Politics - An Ultimate and Inevitable Victory
 

The point of this thread is to claim that tough moderation in Politics will be ineffective in keeping bad posters from posting and encouraging good posters to post.

Re: Politics - An Ultimate and Inevitable Victory
 

Let's get a couple of things straight.

IMO, the politics forum is NOT a political forum for people to push their agenda.

It is a forum for existing members of the 2+2 community to discuss political subject matter.

World problems WILL NOT be solved in this forum.

Please quit acting like this is the end of democracy as we know it.

Re: Politics - An Ultimate and Inevitable Victory
 

[ QUOTE ]
the end of democracy as we know it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The OP's implication was a negative outcome, not a positive one.

Re: Politics - An Ultimate and Inevitable Victory
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the end of democracy as we know it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The OP's implication was a negative outcome, not a positive one.

[/ QUOTE ]
lol, vnh

Re: Politics - An Ultimate and Inevitable Victory
 

You've convinced me. Shut down the Politics forum! It's full of drivel.

Re: Politics - An Ultimate and Inevitable Victory
 

If politics is closed down, where do politics posters go...

Think it through, and you will realise politics, SMP and all the other specialised forums like that do a really good job.

Re: Politics - An Ultimate and Inevitable Victory
 

Is this OP why pvn is banned for 3 days? If not, why?

Ma Che Fa
 

[ QUOTE ]


IMO, the politics forum is NOT a political forum for people to push their agenda.

It is a forum for existing members of the 2+2 community to discuss political subject matter.


[/ QUOTE ]
Two outta three italics misplaced.

Carry on.

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


IMO, the politics forum is NOT a political forum for people to push their agenda.

It is a forum for existing members of the 2+2 community to discuss political subject matter.


[/ QUOTE ]
Two outta three italics misplaced.

Carry on.

[/ QUOTE ]

for as much as you guys like to argue, nobody has been able to make an intelligent one against my statement.

very telling.

carry on.

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


IMO, the politics forum is NOT a political forum for people to push their agenda.

It is a forum for existing members of the 2+2 community to discuss political subject matter.


[/ QUOTE ]
Two outta three italics misplaced.

Carry on.

[/ QUOTE ]

for as much as you guys like to argue, nobody has been able to make an intelligent one against my statement.

very telling.

carry on.

[/ QUOTE ]

By-Tor,

I agree with your statement. Therefore, I will not argue against it.

Regards,
--jman220

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

[ QUOTE ]
For as much as you guys like to argue, nobody has been able to make an intelligent one against my statement. Very telling.



[/ QUOTE ]What is there to argue when you are posting truisms? Remove the silly italics and your statement is a ho-hum truism. I.e. the 2+2 politics forum is a forum for existing members of the 2+2 community to discuss political subject matter. No argument there. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

And here is a revelation :

When discussing politics, people will usually support their own agenda of beliefs!..

Wow, huh?

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


IMO, the politics forum is NOT a political forum for people to push their agenda.

It is a forum for existing members of the 2+2 community to discuss political subject matter.


[/ QUOTE ]
Two outta three italics misplaced.

Carry on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea that bothers me too, I thought I was the only one. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For as much as you guys like to argue, nobody has been able to make an intelligent one against my statement. Very telling.



[/ QUOTE ]What is there to argue when you are posting truisms? Remove the silly italics and your statement is a ho-hum truism. I.e. the 2+2 politics forum is a forum for existing members of the 2+2 community to discuss political subject matter. No argument there. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

And here is a revelation :

When discussing politics, people will usually support their own agenda of beliefs!..

Wow, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

By-Tor,
You can probably see why Cyrus was banned, and why people like him make a lot of normal posters hate the politics forum. But we're working on fixing that. Posts like the one Cyrus just made here are no longer tolerated in the politics forum, and would have resulted in a suspension, had he posted it in politics instead of "About the Forums."

Regards,
--jman220

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

jman, so you agree with the prevailing sentiment that a small subset of the Mods opinions, are more important than posters opinions, even when the posters are the majority, and create the content that drives people here?

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

[ QUOTE ]
jman, so you agree with the prevailing sentiment that a small subset of the Mods opinions, are more important than posters opinions, even when the posters are the majority, and create the content that drives people here?

[/ QUOTE ]

the new and improved sniper, same as the old sniper. I like that I can finally call you out for [censored] like this in the open forums, stop twisting people's words.

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
jman, so you agree with the prevailing sentiment that a small subset of the Mods opinions, are more important than posters opinions, even when the posters are the majority, and create the content that drives people here?

[/ QUOTE ]

the new and improved sniper, same as the old sniper. I like that I can finally call you out for [censored] like this in the open forums, stop twisting people's words.

[/ QUOTE ]

New and improved Sniper idea, was shot down... which is too bad, actually!

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
jman, so you agree with the prevailing sentiment that a small subset of the Mods opinions, are more important than posters opinions, even when the posters are the majority, and create the content that drives people here?

[/ QUOTE ]

the new and improved sniper, same as the old sniper. I like that I can finally call you out for [censored] like this in the open forums, stop twisting people's words.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's very telling that you specifically call out Sniper on this, when the same comment can be made about nearly every single post in these threads.

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
jman, so you agree with the prevailing sentiment that a small subset of the Mods opinions, are more important than posters opinions, even when the posters are the majority, and create the content that drives people here?

[/ QUOTE ]

the new and improved sniper, same as the old sniper. I like that I can finally call you out for [censored] like this in the open forums, stop twisting people's words.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's very telling that you specifically call out Sniper on this, when the same comment can be made about nearly every single post in these threads.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its for a few reasons. I've never been able to say it about sniper before in public, he recently claimed to be "new and improved" so just wanted to point out him doing the same old same old, and I don't deal with politics posters because 99% of them are horrible.

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

[ QUOTE ]
jman, so you agree with the prevailing sentiment that a small subset of the Mods opinions, are more important than posters opinions, even when the posters are the majority, and create the content that drives people here?

[/ QUOTE ]

As pertains to the Politics forum, this statement bears no semblance to reality.

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

Meb,

I understand your frustration. I just hate the fact that certain mods seem to have vendettas against other mods and posters. I think it's bad for the forum.

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

This thread sucks so bad it should be in the politics forum.

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

[ QUOTE ]
jman, so you agree with the prevailing sentiment that a small subset of the Mods opinions, are more important than posters opinions, even when the posters are the majority, and create the content that drives people here?

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you talking about, and how did you get that from my post? I'm being serious here, I really have no idea what you're talking about.

Edit: And clear your pm inbox.

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

[ QUOTE ]
jman, so you agree with the prevailing sentiment that a small subset of the Mods opinions, are more important than posters opinions, even when the posters are the majority, and create the content that drives people here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sniper - the world doesn't revolve around you and your bruised ego. Get over it, move on.

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: And clear your pm inbox.

[/ QUOTE ]

jman, If you are interested, you can follow discussion on the status of clearing my PM box in this thread

If you really need to send me something before that's done, my email is readily available.

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
jman, so you agree with the prevailing sentiment that a small subset of the Mods opinions, are more important than posters opinions, even when the posters are the majority, and create the content that drives people here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sniper - the world doesn't revolve around you and your bruised ego. Get over it, move on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Politics - An Ultimate and Inevitable Victory
 

- An Ultimate and Inevitable Victory About the Forums pvn 03/16/07 04:15 PM
Re: Sucks About the Forums pvn 03/13/07 02:39 PM
Re: Sucks About the Forums pvn 03/12/07 04:36 PM
Re: Obama stiffs the govt (for years, taxes and parking tickets unpaid About the Forums pvn 03/11/07 05:16 PM
Re: Hi Politics pvn 03/10/07 09:52 AM
Re: When the state takes care of children? Politics pvn 03/09/07 10:26 AM
Re: When the state takes care of children? Politics pvn 03/08/07 10:32 PM
Re: When the state takes care of children? Politics pvn 03/08/07 07:11 PM
Re: P.S. : Waco Politics pvn 03/04/07 08:27 AM
Re: Jump ! Politics pvn 03/02/07 11:34 PM
Re: Meat grinder Politics pvn 03/02/07 04:31 PM
Re: Statism, AC, and Corporatism- The End Result is the Same Politics pvn 02/20/07 08:11 PM
Re: The Chickadee Special Sklansky Forum pvn 02/16/07 10:29 AM
Re: The Cleaner Special Sklansky Forum pvn 02/15/07 02:11 PM
Re: What do you like about the State? Politics pvn 02/05/07 08:46 PM
Re: What do you like about the State? Politics pvn 02/02/07 05:33 PM
Re: AC Hypothetical Politics pvn 01/22/07 11:10 PM
Re: What the anarchcapitalists need to understand: Moral clarity Politics pvn 01/18/07 03:57 PM



I noticed that PVN was very fond of the phrase "strawman," so I thought his usage of such term 18 times in the past 3 months deserved its own thread cause I'd hate for speech to be stiffled

Re: Politics - An Ultimate and Inevitable Victory
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not to mention, the "budding" ACer he mentioned didn't post in politics prior to last week. At all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, exactly. I even said "I went back and looked at OP's by new posters".

The point being, the one non-trolling, non-inflammatory OP by a "smart new poster" espouses the values that the new regime is systematically trying to exclude from the forum.

Re: Politics - An Ultimate and Inevitable Victory
 

[ QUOTE ]
The point of this thread is to claim that tough moderation in Politics will be ineffective in keeping bad posters from posting and encouraging good posters to post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not exactly. The point is to claim that the current implementation of "tough moderation" will not achieve these goals, mostly because the current implementation doesn't have anything to do with good posts and bad posts, despite the overt claims.

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


IMO, the politics forum is NOT a political forum for people to push their agenda.

It is a forum for existing members of the 2+2 community to discuss political subject matter.


[/ QUOTE ]
Two outta three italics misplaced.

Carry on.

[/ QUOTE ]

for as much as you guys like to argue, nobody has been able to make an intelligent one against my statement.

very telling.

carry on.

[/ QUOTE ]

By-Tor,

I agree with your statement. Therefore, I will not argue against it.

Regards,
--jman220

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree also. It is your opinion, regardless of anyone else's feelings about your italicization.

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For as much as you guys like to argue, nobody has been able to make an intelligent one against my statement. Very telling.



[/ QUOTE ]What is there to argue when you are posting truisms? Remove the silly italics and your statement is a ho-hum truism. I.e. the 2+2 politics forum is a forum for existing members of the 2+2 community to discuss political subject matter. No argument there. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

And here is a revelation :

When discussing politics, people will usually support their own agenda of beliefs!..

Wow, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

By-Tor,
You can probably see why Cyrus was banned, and why people like him make a lot of normal posters hate the politics forum. But we're working on fixing that. Posts like the one Cyrus just made here are no longer tolerated in the politics forum, and would have resulted in a suspension, had he posted it in politics instead of "About the Forums."

Regards,
--jman220

[/ QUOTE ]
Umm, what about his post was so intolerable? BTW have you discovered any of those horrible anti-semetic posts Cyrus made yet?

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

I think that your assertion that the forum is for discussion is correct. But, other than the weather, every discussion is the "pushing of an agenda". You certainly have an agenda in your posts. There is no way to avoid that and there is nothing wrong with that.

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For as much as you guys like to argue, nobody has been able to make an intelligent one against my statement. Very telling.



[/ QUOTE ]What is there to argue when you are posting truisms? Remove the silly italics and your statement is a ho-hum truism. I.e. the 2+2 politics forum is a forum for existing members of the 2+2 community to discuss political subject matter. No argument there. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

And here is a revelation :

When discussing politics, people will usually support their own agenda of beliefs!..

Wow, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

By-Tor,
You can probably see why Cyrus was banned, and why people like him make a lot of normal posters hate the politics forum. But we're working on fixing that. Posts like the one Cyrus just made here are no longer tolerated in the politics forum, and would have resulted in a suspension, had he posted it in politics instead of "About the Forums."

Regards,
--jman220

[/ QUOTE ]
Umm, what about his post was so intolerable? BTW have you discovered any of those horrible anti-semetic posts Cyrus made yet?

[/ QUOTE ]
Still waiting

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

btw not that anyone care but borodog and mickey were two of my fav posters, not because of their opinions but because i enjoyed reading them.

all i can do now is hope luckyme isnt banned because that would complete my trifecta of favorite posters being banned.

Re: Ma Che Fa
 

[ QUOTE ]
btw not that anyone care but borodog and mickey were two of my fav posters, not because of their opinions but because i enjoyed reading them.

all i can do now is hope luckyme isnt banned because that would complete my trifecta of favorite posters being banned.

[/ QUOTE ]

Borodog wasn't banned. He requested a self-ban, and I believe that self-ban is expiring soon.

Regards,
--jman220