Taking shots at higher limits
 

When you LHE guys want to take shots at higher limits, do you like to buy in the same # of BBs as you would at your current level? Say you have been playing live 3/6 and buying in for $150, if you decide to take a shot at 4/8 do you like to buy in for $200 or take a smaller amount and use that?

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

I buy in for 40 BB always. If you have a hard time getting 40 BB together, you probably shouldn't take a shot.

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

I always buy in for min. 25 BBs but I always have more $ on me to top off. It's not that I have a hard time getting the buy in together just wondering what amounts some of you like to take shots with. A 40 BB buy in at lHE sounds a bit high to me but everyone has a certain amount they like I guess. Something to be said for having a larger stack in front of you as far as a bit on intimidation goes

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

I'd buy in with at least 30x the BB no matter what limit I played at and have a few hundred in my pocket if things go card dead or bad. I feel more confident with some chips in front of me and want to be able to cap on all streets if needed.

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

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I buy in for 40 BB always. If you have a hard time getting 40 BB together, you probably shouldn't take a shot.

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Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

It should be noted that Frond is speaking about a B & M Game, on the internet i can see buying in for 40bb, specifically because you get triple the amount of hands and a lot more aggressive players...

Regarding B & M,
If your playing a correct limit for you, 40 bb should last you a 7 hr session of running crappy, busting 40 bb at a 3/6 table means your running very poor, or the table is very bad, and i would rather see you switch limits than flush $240 into a 3/6 table. How much income potential is really at a 3/6 table and how much do you expect to make? Buying in for $240 and expecting to win 5 bb/hr (very high rate!) means you have to play 8 hours just to meet your buy in.

I buy in for 25bb, and I have a 90% session win ratio. I dont think your doing something right if there is a chance your busting 40 bb into a small stakes table during a 5 or so hr session.

Over my 3 years of B & M Playing, I have never recovered after a 30 bb slide despite rebuying, so i dont think its productive.

GL

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

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Over my 3 years of B & M Playing, I have never recovered after a 30 bb slide.

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Really? I go like once every months and I've recovered from 30 BB slides 2 times last year.

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

2 times still isnt a profitable ratio unless you tried it exactly 2 times. And yea i have done it, 2 times, over a 3 year span, and 5 other times have rebought after a slide. I learned that switching tables or coming back the next day is a far better profitability decsion than sticking it out and rebuying, there is genreally a reason your loosing if your 40 bb deep.

2 times over how many potential times = ratio of profitability on your decsion...

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

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2 times still isnt a profitable ratio unless you tried it exactly 2 times. And yea i have done it, 2 times, over a 3 year span, and 5 other times have rebought after a slide. I learned that switching tables or coming back the next day is a far better profitability decsion than sticking it out and rebuying, there is genreally a reason your loosing if your 40 bb deep.

2 times over how many potential times = ratio of profitability on your decsion...

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uh i have no idea what you're talking about. Play until yr playing bad or the game is bad. If I'm playing well I won't get up if I'm stuck 400 BB.

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

If your playing well, you wont ever be behind 400bb, that is precisely my point, make a change...

What I am talking about is fairly simple, you said you had continued after a 30bb slide 2 times, and i replied, 2 times out of how many oppurtunities, put it into a ratio.

To say I have had 2 royal flushes sounds great, but considering ive played 400k hands, doesnt it sound not as cool?

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

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Regarding B & M,
If your playing a correct limit for you, 40 bb should last you a 7 hr session of running crappy, busting 40 bb at a 3/6 table means your running very poor, or the table is very bad,

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Given the variance in B&M games, even up to 20-40, 40 BBs is nothing. There's less variance in tighter/aggressive full games.

I do agree that he should move up to 4-8 as fast as possible. Live 3-6 is training wheels.

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I buy in for 25bb, and I have a 90% session win ratio.

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Most winning players I know only have around a 50-60% session win ratio. One was in the 40%. Do you just get up a little bit and then leave quickly?

OP: I used to buy in for 25BBs. Then as I got used to playing longer sessions, and digging out of holes and then ignoring where I am at during a session, I will go in for 50-60BBs now. Kinda that pain tolerance thing.

But as someone mentioned in another response, use your normal number of BBs buy in when moving up. You'll want to feel as comfortable as possible and minimize having the new limit(monetary value) creep into your thinking.

b

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

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I buy in for 25bb, and I have a 90% session win ratio.

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uh... this is crazy. i'm like 50% winrate at the b&m i play at. the variance is huge at tables with 7-8 players to the flop and monster pots. at $3/6 i've lost a couple racks like nothin. also walked away up 5 racks after just a couple hours.

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

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2 times still isnt a profitable ratio unless you tried it exactly 2 times. And yea i have done it, 2 times, over a 3 year span, and 5 other times have rebought after a slide. I learned that switching tables or coming back the next day is a far better profitability decsion than sticking it out and rebuying, there is genreally a reason your loosing if your 40 bb deep.

2 times over how many potential times = ratio of profitability on your decsion...

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If you're playing well, you're looking at it in the wrong way. Profitability has nothing to do with actually how much you may be down(or up) in a session. If you're playing well, and the game is good, why come back the next day? Even more-so, if the game is good, why would you switch tables? The next hand is the next hand regardless of when you play it. The next days game may not be as good.

Again, 40BBs is nothing. It's not a good indication that you're doing anything wrong. Though you should be monitoring your play regardless. That's like saying because you're up 40BB in 3 hours you must be playing expertly.

b

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

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If your playing well, you wont ever be behind 400bb, that is precisely my point, make a change...


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His point is, if you're playing well, you could still easily be 40BBs behind.

400BB? Although unlikely, it is still possible.

b

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

i'm curious now... what are ppl's winrates at b&m lhe?

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

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I always buy in for min. 25 BBs but I always have more $ on me to top off. It's not that I have a hard time getting the buy in together just wondering what amounts some of you like to take shots with. A 40 BB buy in at lHE sounds a bit high to me but everyone has a certain amount they like I guess. Something to be said for having a larger stack in front of you as far as a bit on intimidation goes

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Generally: Take a shot when you have a full buy in, bet-wise, for the next limit.

However, taking a shot with 1/2(25BBs) isn't necesarily a bad idea. You will likely learn something on that session. I did when I took a shot like that when moving from 4-8 to 10-20(quite a jump back then). It may even make your normal level seem a bit easier.

But I definitely wouldn't take a shot shortstacked. That could hinder you getting a feel for the higher level.

b

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

(not that it matters)

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

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i'm curious now... what are ppl's winrates at b&m lhe?

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This clueless noob is at 0.4BB/hr over 300+ hours or so at B&M 2/4; exactly 50% session win ratio (although just recently attained thanks to a recent hot streak). 90% seems pretty God-like to me.

30BB downswings within longish session (7-10 hours) doesn't seem unreasonable to me, but I am a clueless noob; I had that within my last session and still ended up with my best session ever overall (up 67.25BB).

Buying in for more than 25BB at my B&M 2/4 table would get you a lot of odd looks and raised eyebrows.

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

No one wins 90% of their sessions. That's insane.

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

I have no problems buying in for 20BBs. Just don't ever allow yourself to drop to a point you'll run out in a big hand. That's a disaster and I see it all the time. ("All in always wins.")

Some of the responses in this thread have me shaking my head in wonder.

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

I've been playing low limit B&M for a year (2/4, now 4/8-6/12) now and have never seen anyone buy in for 40bb in one shot. I get strange looks for buying in for $200 at 4.

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

If your b&m game has unlimited HU betting and a 5bet cap like around here buying in at least 35-40bbs is a good idea. 30BB swings are really not that uncommon in an active game so even buying in 40 you might have to reload occasionally. Also, its never a problem having too many bets on the table in limit, just too few. No reason to set yourself up for the latter. Obv i agree that if you cant round up 40BBs you shouldnt play in the game.

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

i dont argue that anything is impossible, all i am saying as that at some point in time, you need to realize its not a varience, its that the table or limit isnt right for u, namely, you suck, so instead of rebuying or overbuying a table, buy at 25-30 and find another one if u piss that much away

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

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Buying in for more than 25BB at my B&M 2/4 table would get you a lot of odd looks and raised eyebrows.

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thanks, i agree with this statement, buying in 40bb at a limit table is just ridiculous to me, and i have been beating the games for years buying in at 25

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

insane but possible, come visit me at hawiian gardens anytime [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

O yea, totally agree, if u buy 25bb, anytime u have less than 12bb in your stack, your loosing potential...very good point.

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

I dont play ridiculously long sessions, genreally they are after work sessions between 1-3 hours, but i will walk away if i do more than double at a point in time if the table isnt going to get pissy about it. None of the sessions of my 90% include sessions that i won less than 7bb (60 bucks). If it makes you feel any better, my online win ratio is 42% (and i am still very profitable). The sample size on the 90% is quite lower than a complete sample size, its not like this is over 600 sessions or anything, but i am completely crushing low limit hold em live at this point, and during my last 12 sessions...i have one 11, lost 1 and won 1200 bucks (approx 28 hours of play). I am a net player up to 20/40 limit, but have no roll because im waiting on 5k of cashout that i am certain at this point will never come, so im back to the little games. If you dont believe me, ill be at HG today, come look at my racks...
P.s. i only buy in for 25bb.
cheers

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

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i dont argue that anything is impossible, all i am saying as that at some point in time, you need to realize its not a varience, its that the table or limit isnt right for u, namely, you suck, so instead of rebuying or overbuying a table, buy at 25-30 and find another one if u piss that much away

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The point is, 25-30 bets doesn't mean anything. That is easily a normal session swing. That's much more variance than it says anything about one's skill or ability to handle the limit. Way too small a sample to conclude it might be one's play based on the result.

If you're on a good table, there would be no reason to switch tables(of equal limits) just because you're running bad.

b

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

depends how good you are.

i just switched from $2-4 to $4-8 and have been very sucessful so far. been playing $2-4 holdem and $1-3 spread limit stud for the past year. now i'm 100% $4-8 limit. i book a winning session 75% of the time. i always buy in for 20 big bets, $80 in $2-4, and $160 in $4-8. point is, you should pick up a hand within that time frame so you wont go through your stack unless the table is too tough or you're making mistakes and it's better to limit your losses and try again the next day (my experience). you tend to lose more when you're losing, even an excellent player is succeseptipal [sp] to that happening.

sure, go ahead and take a shot at higher limits. but unless you find that game more profitable than your other game i don't see the point.

for bankroll considerations in general, i really only require 4 buy-ins, which is 80 big bets. alot of people say 200-300, and that might roll you for good, but for my purposes 80 is fine. something would have to go really wrong for me to lose 4 sessions straight, and even so, i could come up with another 20 big bets, no biggie.

a good player can't lose over the long run so i don't put too much value on bankroll considerations for a non full-time gambler like myself.

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

Running good is fun, isn't it?

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

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Running good is fun, isn't it?

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Not running good is my biggest leak.

-d

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

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No one wins 90% of their sessions. That's insane.

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This topic is irrelevant. The point is not to win your sessions. The point is to play well to produce long term results. If you sit down, steal the blinds and leave, sure you've won your session, but are you going to stop there to say that you won today or are you going to keep playing?

I know this example is extreme but it's not uncommon for people to think they've won enough and leave and say their session was a win.

Winning your session is an event independent of playing well.

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

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i always buy in for 20 big bets, $80 in $2-4, and $160 in $4-8. point is, you should pick up a hand within that time frame so you wont go through your stack unless the table is too tough or you're making mistakes and it's better to limit your losses and try again the next day

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This isn't true.

Just because you pick up a hand doesn't mean you're going to win it. You could easily go through 20 bets. Catch 2 or 3 good starters that flop great draws that you jam and miss. Or flop something huge and get rivered after lots of actoin. Not nearly enough to gauge the table toughness on or to conclude that you're making mistakes.

I was in a 20-40 game, down 30+ bets within about 1/2 hour of sitting down. I remember well because the chiprunner was kidding me since she'd never really visited me that often in that amount of time.

It's about that pain tolerance. I'd say 20+BBs is a good checkpoint to maybe sit back, relax and re-evaluate everything to make sure it's ok to continue. There've been times I've left fairly quick because I just wasn't thinking right. Left some gravy games like that. But there are easily more times where everything is fine, you just have to pin your ears back and grind it out.

b

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

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No one wins 90% of their sessions. That's insane.

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This topic is irrelevant. The point is not to win your sessions. The point is to play well to produce long term results. If you sit down, steal the blinds and leave, sure you've won your session, but are you going to stop there to say that you won today or are you going to keep playing?

I know this example is extreme but it's not uncommon for people to think they've won enough and leave and say their session was a win.

Winning your session is an event independent of playing well.

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Very true.

Of course, you're not even going to win your initial blind hand 90% of the time.

However, I'm very leary of anyone who says they've won 90% of their sessions. Especially if they act like it's something of the norm. Usually it means either they aren't really keeping track that well, or they have a nice downswing coming up sometime in their future.

b

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

I've had sessions where I was down 30BB early on and ended up winning 50+. In live games I generally don't quit in less than 5 hours. Unless I'm losing badly I usually play at least 8 hours.

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

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I've had sessions where I was down 30BB early on and ended up winning 50+. In live games I generally don't quit in less than 5 hours. Unless I'm losing badly I usually play at least 8 hours.

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Tonight I was up 4.5BBs early on. Then I was stuck over 30BBs. Then I found my way back to about 4BBs up. Back down to about 25BBs. In the 9 brutal hours I played, I made 4 BBs. Yay. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I was sent off with a last hand of KK UTG. Raised, got 5 callers. Ace flops, I check and fold. Good times!

First sugar I've seen in a long time. This bad streak is one for the ages. But that's another post. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

b

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

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Not running good is my biggest leak.


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QFT [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

Are you talking about internet here or live? That kind of a swing live is large enough for me to move, but isnt on the net, this original post was regarding B&M play, so everything i posted on this thread is in regards to speficially b&m play.

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

Great post, and very well agreed bernie, thanks...
CDL

Re: Taking shots at higher limits
 

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Are you talking about internet here or live? That kind of a swing live is large enough for me to move, but isnt on the net, this original post was regarding B&M play, so everything i posted on this thread is in regards to speficially b&m play.

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Everything I've posted is regarding B&M play also.

It's where I spend 30+ hours a week.

b