live 20 hand
 

Live 20 game, my image is solid, villan in this hand is spazzy, likes showing down, can raise thin and bet when checked to (thin).

ANYHOO

EP Limper, villan raises in MP, I call in the BB with QcJd.

Flop comes Qd 8d 3d.

I check, limper checks, villan bets, I call, limper folds.

The turn is a black 3. I check, he quickly checks.

The river is the Tc.

I check.

Re: live 20 hand
 

Yeah I prefer c/r bet bet bet bet bet. Sometimes I'll get cute and go with bet bet bet bet bet bet bet bet bet.

However once he checks the turn I cannot argue against going for the c/r again.

Re: live 20 hand
 

Wrong board. Bet river; you have Ad and he has the better Ace high.

Re: live 20 hand
 

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Wrong board.

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Re: live 20 hand
 

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Wrong board.

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He's got you on the obvious flushdraw hand. He's checking.

Re: live 20 hand
 

Brett, I have to agree with Dave here. I think you get looked up more than you can induce a bet. What reason does he have to bet?

Re: live 20 hand
 

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Brett, I have to agree with Dave here. I think you get looked up more than you can induce a bet. What reason does he have to bet?

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Cuz he either has no pair and no ace or he has a pair and thinks his hand is better than mine.

Re: live 20 hand
 

c/r flop, lead turn imo.

Re: live 20 hand
 

I really don't see why you wouldn't take the gimme flop checkraise here with a limper in between.

Jeff

Re: live 20 hand
 

Seems like you're getting fancy with a pretty marginal hand. Headsup maybe calling flop is best. but if MP calls, there are a lot of cards that can come which will freeze you. think you can make life a lot easier with a C/R on flop.

Re: live 20 hand
 

check raise the flop and bet the river and you owe me dinner.

Re: live 20 hand
 

what do you guys think he's folding on the flop if I c/r?

Re: live 20 hand
 

"what do you guys think he's folding on the flop if I c/r?"

I don't think the issue is what he folds. I think you're trying to make more money on him, and define is hand range.

Did you check the river to induce a bluff ? Because you've got the best of him by there.

Re: live 20 hand
 

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Did you check the river to induce a bluff ?

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Yes. A bet, really, which may or may not be a bluff. But yes.

Re: live 20 hand
 

What hand range do you put him on to think it's not a bluff. TT ?

Re: live 20 hand
 

No,he's not folding the flop.You will not risk a check-behind on the turn,& you will probably get 3 bets from him on the flop & turn combined.

Re: live 20 hand
 

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What hand range do you put him on to think it's not a bluff. TT ?

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Pairs 66-JJ, an 8, maybe even a 3. To him its not a bluff. He'll likely think he checked 3 times, my pair is good, I bet.

Re: live 20 hand
 

I think you found the line with the least possible profit, short of folding the flop.

Re: live 20 hand
 

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I think you found the line with the least possible profit, short of folding the flop.

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I didn't say he'd call with those hands.

Re: live 20 hand
 

I just mean the whole hand. You missed 1 bet on the flop. Assuming you check the flop, you missed one on the turn. And then you leave yourself all kinds of chances to miss one on the river. And during the whole thing you let any K or A try to improve. I just don't like any of it. But I'm certainly not the resident expert on here.

Re: live 20 hand
 

I like a flop check raise. With your line, I like your river check.

Re: live 20 hand
 

checkraise the flop so you can bet the turn and check the river to induce a bluff from an in position opponent who creatively puts you on the naked ace.

FJM

Re: live 20 hand
 

Mybe he doesnt need 60 dollars, i know I do.
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: live 20 hand
 

uhhh.... ok. Check raise and bet the whole way right?

Re: live 20 hand
 

Am I missing something here?

Why don't you C/R the flop and bet from there? You have a really strong hand, and he could just put you on the naked A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], and furthermore, he's spazzy, so he might call down thinking you're FOS.

Maybe you know your opponent really well, but against normal guys, I C/R, bet, bet.

Re: live 20 hand
 

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Maybe you know your opponent really well, but against normal guys, I C/R, bet, bet.


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I do this 99% of the time too. And I do know this guy well. People who say c/r the flop to get more money in are likely right. He won't fold anything that beats me and likely won't give me action with less. He *might* 3 bet with the Ad but I'm not sure. But there is something to be said for getting more money in the pot with the best hand.

People who are saying to C/r and get it HU though, that I don't get. The limper will never fold anything I want him too and will never unprofitably call with a small pair or anything anyways.

On the river, my thoughts were that he'd bet any pair, anything less than ace high, and possibly even ace high if he puts me on an small piece or something. Hence the check(-raise).

Re: live 20 hand
 

If you just check/call the flop,you give limper 8 to 1 odds to come in.Too much.Raise & get rid of him.

Re: live 20 hand
 

Bret -

as played you should bet the river, he will call with AK and probably worse trying to pick off a bluff in desperation - you got lucky he bet the river. However I'd get some more action in on the flop if I were you.

Re: live 20 hand
 

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I really don't see why you wouldn't take the gimme flop checkraise here with a limper in between.

Jeff

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Re: live 20 hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
checkraise the flop so you can bet the turn and check the river to induce a bluff from an in position opponent who creatively puts you on the naked ace.

FJM

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Yahtzee.

Re: live 20 hand
 

It seems that most people feel that check-raising the flop is the way to go. Are you saying this because he has already checked or because going for the check-raise here intentionally is the best play? It seems that betting out wouldn't be bad here either.

Re: live 20 hand
 

[ QUOTE ]

I do this 99% of the time too. And I do know this guy well. People who say c/r the flop to get more money in are likely right. He won't fold anything that beats me and likely won't give me action with less. He *might* 3 bet with the Ad but I'm not sure. But there is something to be said for getting more money in the pot with the best hand.

People who are saying to C/r and get it HU though, that I don't get. The limper will never fold anything I want him too and will never unprofitably call with a small pair or anything anyways.

On the river, my thoughts were that he'd bet any pair, anything less than ace high, and possibly even ace high if he puts me on an small piece or something. Hence the check(-raise).

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Using your logic for the flop play i.e. see what limper does, now that it's HU shouldn't you lead turn when board pairs. If he bets the turn 90% + then I don't mind a check (C/R) on the turn.

As played, check on river is optimal, depending on your image. I don't see how the villain as described could not bet most holdings...