***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

NO GOOD COMES OF IT.

Just stop doing it. If you guys want to keep playing, stop making things easier for those trying trying to stop you from playing. I will 100% guarantee that the anti-poker forces get a significant amount of information from these boards that aid them in their fight against online poker.

So, why give them a road map by providing bank names (gee, my Debit/Credit card from meowchow credit union worked!) or check details (I got a check with a purple horsehoe on it, any idea what site it's from)?

Think people, no good comes of it. Just stop.

<cue BluffThis! chiming in>

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

The good that comes of it is that we are freely sharing information with each other!
That is the whole point of this forum.
I agree that we must be careful about what we post in a public forum, however I am sure many have found some of the information useful and this has allowed them to keep playing.
Should we quit posting of new payment processors?
Or about a site that has a new way to deposit or withdraw?
Where do you draw the line?

While I agree with you on some levels I do not take censorship lightly selfimposed or involentary.

Some good does come out of it!
Does the good outwheigh the bad?
How much longer do we give up our freedoms or stay silent.
When do we say kiss my ass, unite and fight back.

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

I'll chime in indeed.

I believe that the mods of this forum should enact the explicit policy that posters may not in fact post such details of how the financial transactions of various poker sites are processed, and delete any such posts and warn the posters of same. And there is a precedent. In the B&M forum posters are not allowed to post details of private underground cardrooms, in order to protect the interests of of both the 2+2'ers that play there and those that run the games. Thus, despite any uwise desires to the contrary motivated by either hysteria at a delay in receiving funds or curiosity as to the details, *or plain stupidity*, the greater interests of the greater number of posters here would be served by such a policy.

The sole exception might be if a certain site was experiencing widespread problems in paying in a timely fashion which were not due to external factors beyond their control, i.e. they most likely were acting in a fraudulent manner.

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

I agree with this 100 %.

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with this 100 %.

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Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with this 100 %.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with this 100 %.

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Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with this 100 %.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

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Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with this 100 %.

[/ QUOTE ]

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Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

You are all are extremely underestimating the DOJ.

This is not like hiding your joint from the local police force outside the bar while you pretend you aren't doing it and they pretend they don't see.

There's nothing to be revealed here that they don't already know. Calm down.

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
NO GOOD COMES OF IT.

Just stop doing it. If you guys want to keep playing, stop making things easier for those trying trying to stop you from playing. I will 100% guarantee that the anti-poker forces get a significant amount of information from these boards that aid them in their fight against online poker.

So, why give them a road map by providing bank names (gee, my Debit/Credit card from meowchow credit union worked!) or check details (I got a check with a purple horsehoe on it, any idea what site it's from)?

Think people, no good comes of it. Just stop.

<cue BluffThis! chiming in>

[/ QUOTE ]

Good, lets just keep putting our heads in the sand. If a site can not get money to its players, even in todays environment, they should be exposed.

With a ban that you propose, all threads on Neteller would not be allowed, that is not right. Flame away, I am not the most elloquent speaker on this forum, but I dont want to see 2+2 just a shill site to promote online poker without exposit what could be pitfalls of the industry right now.

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with this 100 %.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

I support DING-DONG YO's point of view.

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
NO GOOD COMES OF IT.

Just stop doing it. If you guys want to keep playing, stop making things easier for those trying trying to stop you from playing. I will 100% guarantee that the anti-poker forces get a significant amount of information from these boards that aid them in their fight against online poker.

So, why give them a road map by providing bank names (gee, my Debit/Credit card from meowchow credit union worked!) or check details (I got a check with a purple horsehoe on it, any idea what site it's from)?

Think people, no good comes of it. Just stop.

<cue BluffThis! chiming in>

[/ QUOTE ]

Good, lets just keep putting our heads in the sand. If a site can not get money to its players, even in todays environment, they should be exposed.

With a ban that you propose, all threads on Neteller would not be allowed, that is not right. Flame away, I am not the most elloquent speaker on this forum, but I dont want to see 2+2 just a shill site to promote online poker without exposit what could be pitfalls of the industry right now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're misunderstanding me. I didn't say people shouldn't be able to discuss neteller issues, length of time in receiving checks, etc. etc.

I meant that people should stop posting specific details. Such as bank names, check details (this check has a shiny purple horseshoe and was printed by "balla checks" out of EmpireMaker2, WI), etc.

Does that help clarify my position?

I am in no way advocating a blanket ban on discussing deposit and withdrawl options, heavens no!

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

"I meant that people should stop posting specific details. Such as bank names, check details (this check has a shiny purple horseshoe and was printed by "balla checks" out of EmpireMaker2, WI), etc."


lol

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

Right now, the DOJ is quaking in their boots. How on earth will they be able to find poker site check and credit card processors if we stop talking about them?

The DOJ is not your bumbling local police. They don't sit around like a beat cop and wait for a "crime" to be put in their lap before they act upon it.

A censorship scenario makes no sense. Your premise is flawed not only in your assumptions of how the DOJ operates, but in your belief that stopping discussion here will lower the TOTAL discussion across all boards. Your plan would only push 2+2 readers to other forums.

Most of you are on mega-tilt. Stop and think.

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
Right now, the DOJ is quaking in their boots. How on earth will they be able to find poker site check and credit card processors if we stop talking about them?

The DOJ is not your bumbling local police. They don't sit around like a beat cop and wait for a "crime" to be put in their lap before they act upon it.

A censorship scenario makes no sense. Your premise is flawed not only in your assumptions of how the DOJ operates, but in your belief that stopping discussion here will lower the TOTAL discussion across all boards. Your plan would only push 2+2 readers to other forums.

Most of you are on mega-tilt. Stop and think.

[/ QUOTE ]


What are you not understanding? He is not talking about stopping discussion. Stop and read?

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]



What are you not understanding? He is not talking about stopping discussion. Stop and read?

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand that there is a belief that we somehow have details unavailable to the DOJ that will aid them in their investigation.

Please name those details and explain to me why you think the DOJ does NOT already have:

1. Multiple accounts at every site.
2. Multiple bank accounts from different banks to fund each site.
3. Regularly scheduled withdraw/deposits from every site, using every withdraw/deposit option that site provides.

The DOJ are not idiots. If they've decided to go after the sites, then they have every piece of data on money processing at that site. If they are NOT attacking the sites, then a "OMG Stars is using Chexx" thread that you think is a hot lead, means nothing to them.

You are painting a scenario of a DOJ that is so cunningly and doggedly attacking payment processors that they will pay out of their budget to scan hobbyist discussion forums, and yet...they are somehow so stupid that they won't simply follow the deposit/withdraw chain themselves to get hard evidence of their own.

Do you see the disconnect?

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

No one is disputing that the DOJ can find these things out, but lets not make it any easier for them.

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
Right now, the DOJ is quaking in their boots. How on earth will they be able to find poker site check and credit card processors if we stop talking about them?

The DOJ is not your bumbling local police. They don't sit around like a beat cop and wait for a "crime" to be put in their lap before they act upon it.

A censorship scenario makes no sense. Your premise is flawed not only in your assumptions of how the DOJ operates, but in your belief that stopping discussion here will lower the TOTAL discussion across all boards. Your plan would only push 2+2 readers to other forums.

Most of you are on mega-tilt. Stop and think.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is really pretty simple. There is no upside to giving out details on checks, i.e. I got my X site check today, it was from a company called Z that's located in Y.

There is a potential downside in that those actively trying to ban on line gambling can gain information. I'll admit that this is a low probability, but it is possible.

Why take the risk? I think that is all OP is saying.

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

How will we know when a problem is widespread? whoa

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you see the disconnect?

[/ QUOTE ]
Let's try this one more time for the intellectually challenged.

I bank at a small midwest bank that still allows me to use my debit card to deposit.

Should I post the name and address of that bank on this forum? A yes or no will suffice, SweetPea.

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
NO GOOD COMES OF IT.

Just stop doing it. If you guys want to keep playing, stop making things easier for those trying trying to stop you from playing. I will 100% guarantee that the anti-poker forces get a significant amount of information from these boards that aid them in their fight against online poker.

So, why give them a road map by providing bank names (gee, my Debit/Credit card from meowchow credit union worked!) or check details (I got a check with a purple horsehoe on it, any idea what site it's from)?

Think people, no good comes of it. Just stop.

<cue BluffThis! chiming in>

[/ QUOTE ]

Good, lets just keep putting our heads in the sand. If a site can not get money to its players, even in todays environment, they should be exposed.

With a ban that you propose, all threads on Neteller would not be allowed, that is not right. Flame away, I am not the most elloquent speaker on this forum, but I dont want to see 2+2 just a shill site to promote online poker without exposit what could be pitfalls of the industry right now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're misunderstanding me. I didn't say people shouldn't be able to discuss neteller issues, length of time in receiving checks, etc. etc.

I meant that people should stop posting specific details. Such as bank names, check details (this check has a shiny purple horseshoe and was printed by "balla checks" out of EmpireMaker2, WI), etc.

Does that help clarify my position?

I am in no way advocating a blanket ban on discussing deposit and withdrawl options, heavens no!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I do agree with you on this point.

What I don't want banned is I requested a check from pokersite Y and its been 3 weeks and its not here. This is for all of our protection, and I would not even mind it being kept to one massive topic ala the Neteller info and WSEX topics.

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you see the disconnect?

[/ QUOTE ]
Let's try this one more time for the intellectually challenged.

I bank at a small midwest bank that still allows me to use my debit card to deposit.

Should I post the name and address of that bank on this forum? A yes or no will suffice, SweetPea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you've changed the terms of the argument.
Should you? No. I personally do not.

"Should you" has never been the question. The question is "Should it be BANNED?" When you are talking about prohibition, I expect those preaching for a ban to show me much more proof than "It might kinda help us, maybe, we aren't sure. Well, it probably won't hurt us at least."

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

FWIW, I never brought up TEH BANNED argument. Just that I think it's [censored] stupid and people should stop doing it (posting details that is)

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
I understand that there is a belief that we somehow have details unavailable to the DOJ that will aid them in their investigation.

Please name those details and explain to me why you think the DOJ does NOT already have:

1. Multiple accounts at every site.
2. Multiple bank accounts from different banks to fund each site.
3. Regularly scheduled withdraw/deposits from every site, using every withdraw/deposit option that site provides.

The DOJ are not idiots. If they've decided to go after the sites, then they have every piece of data on money processing at that site. If they are NOT attacking the sites, then a "OMG Stars is using Chexx" thread that you think is a hot lead, means nothing to them.

You are painting a scenario of a DOJ that is so cunningly and doggedly attacking payment processors that they will pay out of their budget to scan hobbyist discussion forums, and yet...they are somehow so stupid that they won't simply follow the deposit/withdraw chain themselves to get hard evidence of their own.

Do you see the disconnect?

[/ QUOTE ] QFT


[ QUOTE ]

This is really pretty simple. There is no upside to giving out details on checks, i.e. I got my X site check today, it was from a company called Z that's located in Y.

There is a potential downside in that those actively trying to ban on line gambling can gain information. I'll admit that this is a low probability, but it is possible.

Why take the risk? I think that is all OP is saying.

[/ QUOTE ]

The upside, in an age where our greatest risk is that recreational losing players won't jump through the hoops to do their impulse deposits, is that these recreational players will know (through open communication) which companies and which checks are working. They also will observe the plurality of companies that are still on our side and that others are using them. Less fear of the unknown when one knows many others are participating successfully in the unknown.

This upside my friend, is far more +EV than the minimal risk of the downside.

It's also really sad that so many of you would act as such cowards in regard to your own rights. Don't act like criminals! Nothing needs to be hidden!

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
Now you've changed the terms of the argument.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, you didn't understand what the argument was to begin with. My example was exactly what DDY was arguing against -- posting my bank details on this forum.

And RainDog, the downside is that I'd have every other 2+2 donk within a 500-mile radius of my bank setting up an account and getting a debit card. Good for them, initially, but how long do you think it would last?

I will keep my deposit option to myself, thank you very much.

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

i posted pretty much the same thing in the credit card thread. Posting the names of the banks who's debit cards work is very very dumb. Plz stop

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
You are all are extremely underestimating the DOJ.

This is not like hiding your joint from the local police force outside the bar while you pretend you aren't doing it and they pretend they don't see.

There's nothing to be revealed here that they don't already know. Calm down.

[/ QUOTE ]
We don't know what the enemies of online poker do or don't know. That's the truth and anything else is speculation. Anyone who studies history knows that the world is chaos. Big government and big business are not scientifically managed enterprises that carefully research and analyze every issue before making perfect decisions.

Sensible people don't help their enemies for no reason at all. Recently I read a post that someone had received a check from <foo> poker. That was a fine post because <foo> has been having a few problems of late and it was good to know that maybe things are turning around.

The post went on to name the bank that the check was written against. The poster who did that was either a saboteur or a fool. No possible good could come from naming that bank. Probably nothing bad will happen either, but you can't be sure of that. It's a freeroll for the bad guys.

I don't advocate censorship of this forum, but freedom of speech includes freedom to STFU. Don't be a fish in the game of life. Think a moment before you share stuff that no one needs to know anyway.

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

I stand corrected. OP did not bring up banning of details.

For the record,
I do not post my own details for the reason stated by RoundGuy above.
I DO want you all to post your details for the reason stated by RainDog, however.

My arguments were based on the mistaken idea that OP was asking for a 2+2 enforced ban.

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
No one is disputing that the DOJ can find these things out, but lets not make it any easier for them.

[/ QUOTE ]Agreed.

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
I do not post my own details for the reason stated by RoundGuy above.
I DO want you all to post your details for the reason stated by RainDog, however.

[/ QUOTE ]
And therein lies the paradox. We all want fish to be able to easily deposit -- just don't screw up my deposit option. Oh well.

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***

[/ QUOTE ]

can we post them in other threads?

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

Why not just black out the offensive details, while leaving the rest of the posts intact? Like they do when they send out sensitive documents requested under FOIA.

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

This is really pretty simple. There is no upside to giving out details on checks, i.e. I got my X site check today, it was from a company called Z that's located in Y.

There is a potential downside in that those actively trying to ban on line gambling can gain information. I'll admit that this is a low probability, but it is possible.

Why take the risk? I think that is all OP is saying.

[/ QUOTE ]

The upside, in an age where our greatest risk is that recreational losing players won't jump through the hoops to do their impulse deposits, is that these recreational players will know (through open communication) which companies and which checks are working. They also will observe the plurality of companies that are still on our side and that others are using them. Less fear of the unknown when one knows many others are participating successfully in the unknown.

This upside my friend, is far more +EV than the minimal risk of the downside.

It's also really sad that so many of you would act as such cowards in regard to your own rights. Don't act like criminals! Nothing needs to be hidden!

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. Really. LOL.

Did you READ the post you replied too? No, there is NO upside to giving out every last detail of a cheque you receive. Enough encouraging information can be disclosed without giving away everything. Or perhaps everyone should also state the amounts of their cheques so as to encourage those recreational losing players that they can do better. BTW, how many of those recreational losing players do you imagine are on this site? And do you not think that those who are can not find encouragement from the multiple threads here discussing successful cashouts without every last detail being posted?

As far as being cowards, I really don't understand this part. No one is acting like a criminal, and nothing NEEDS to be hidden...but isn't it smarter to leave out information that benefits no one, but could harm many? Cowardly would be to cash out all your money, format your hard drive, and sell you computer for fear the DOJ is going to kick in your door. Pretty much everyone here is playing in SPITE of the hurdles your crappy government is putting the way...OP has just made an intelligent suggestion to ensure this can continue. What better way to fight back against those who want to stop you from playing than by continuing to play while doing everything you can to thwart their efforts?

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***

[/ QUOTE ]

can we post them in other threads?

[/ QUOTE ]

kiss my boo-tay plz.

This is srs business thread. Zoo is srs business.

And no, don't post them anywhere on 2+2.

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You are all are extremely underestimating the DOJ.

This is not like hiding your joint from the local police force outside the bar while you pretend you aren't doing it and they pretend they don't see.

There's nothing to be revealed here that they don't already know. Calm down.

[/ QUOTE ]
We don't know what the enemies of online poker do or don't know. That's the truth and anything else is speculation. Anyone who studies history knows that the world is chaos. Big government and big business are not scientifically managed enterprises that carefully research and analyze every issue before making perfect decisions.

Sensible people don't help their enemies for no reason at all. Recently I read a post that someone had received a check from <foo> poker. That was a fine post because <foo> has been having a few problems of late and it was good to know that maybe things are turning around.

<b>The post went on to name the bank that the check was written against. The poster who did that was either a saboteur or a fool. No possible good could come from naming that bank. Probably nothing bad will happen either, but you can't be sure of that. It's a freeroll for the bad guys.</b>

I don't advocate censorship of this forum, but freedom of speech includes freedom to STFU. Don't be a fish in the game of life. Think a moment before you share stuff that no one needs to know anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

VERY well put. A freeroll for the bad guys. Is anything likely to come of it? Probably not, but why give them the chance?

Is the fish likely to hit his 2-outer on the river? No, but would you give him a free card so he could try? Bet, and he'll likely call anyway, but at least you've made him pay for his crappy draw. If he hits, he hits, you did what you could. Will the DOJ get this information anyway if they want it? Sure, but why make it easy for them? Make them pay for their crappy draw!

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

There is always some good and bad with censorship. I think that talking about specific banks might nudge the DOJ in to action. If they know that thousands of people are looking for new payment processors on this forum and willingly defying the US government the DOJ just might act in some way. On the other hand fish also read these forums and it might help them fund an account which helps everyone. Since the DOJ could find the info they need with relative ease I don't see a it as a problem that warrants censorship.

The Zoo is getting cluttered with payment processing information. Six of out ten posts on the first page talk about checks or neteller. Obviously these are the most important issues at the time in Internet Gambling and I think that they deserve the time. I think a whole new forum should be started dedicated solely to threads about payment processors. Much like a rake back forum was created after discussion about rake back was banned.

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

I guess I'm the only one that thinks it really doesn't matter. DDY you're acting like cashing the checks is some illicit activity. While I agree that there don't need to be 20 different threads about it, I don't see the harm in knowing how long a check from poker site x takes to get to me, and what bank it's drawn on. If site A takes a week drawn on a bank that I bank with and site B takes 20 days drawn on a bank I've never heard of. Which one am I going to cash out if I need the money quickly?

The government is going to do what the government is going to do. Has any of the outrage about what has happened changed anything? Someone would have to take their head out of their ass for a few seconds but I doubt anyone in the government can do that long enough even to read 2+2.

Re: ***PSA, STOP POSTING CHECK AND BANK DETAILS HERE***
 

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with this 100 %.

[/ QUOTE ]