Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros. Why
 

Alright, let me preface this by making it clear online is more of just a fun way of donking around at home for me (I'm a solid winning live player at 1/2 and 2/5 NL), and I've never made much money online (probably lost quite a bit actually). Also, feel free to flame away at how easy 1/2 and 2/5 are live - I know.

So, I started playing online doing only SNGs, with limited success (ran hot at first, then dropped off, now am maybe break even), and would occassionally dabble in the cash games. I played micro stakes, since I've read online is 10x more difficult than live at the stakes I can crush at casinos. Long story short, I f'n sucked. I can't seem to beat the low ass .01/.02, .02/.05, and .05/.10 games on stars no matter how seriously I took them (pathetic, I know).

So, just for [censored] and giggles this Friday (and while on a purple football shaped pill that makes me care about very few things), I put enough money on stars for 5 $40 buyins for .5/1 and 1/2 NL, and to me these games are WAY easier than the micros. I turned the $200 into $475, withdrew $400, and am back up to $225 as of now in about 8-12 hours of one/two tabling. My sample size is still limited (but growing), but so far I've been able to beat these games without putting in much thought, having my reads actually be quite accurate, and simply playing a solid aggressive style (tighter than a LAG, but not harrington-tight). I definitely haven't been running hot either, and haven't been sucking out left and right.

So for you poor people who just read this, why would I have an easier time beating a theoretically tougher/more advanced game? I'm not in the belief of "people respect my raises" and that garbage, but it just seems like the players are better and their logic is easier to decode.

Is there anybody else on here that thinks the small stakes games are easier than the micro stakes, and if so, why?

I expect about 95% of the reponses to be flames, so please don't hold back. I love getting 2p2 flamed. I will transfer $5 to the best flame I get on this thread, since that's what this site is known for and if get one honest/genuine/helpful reponse I'll be amazed.

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros. Why
 

wayyyyyyyy tldr, but if youre beating 1/2 wtf are you playing micros? also, wtf do you care if youre spewing 1/20th of a buy-in

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

[ QUOTE ]
but it just seems like the players are better and their logic is easier to decode.

[/ QUOTE ]

When the players are worse, you don't have to decode anything. If they are bad enough that their play doesn't makes sense, all you have to do is

"Bad hand, I fold"
"Good hand, I bet"
"ooga booga"

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

your running hotter then my mom on a saturday night.

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

I agree but I dont know how many others do, I ran bad recently and really dont wanna drop to NL50 cause Micro stakes is pretty nubtastic and I do worse vs those type of players aswell.

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

i'll pay you $100 to sit full stacked at 4 tables for an hour with me at 2/4

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

you'll be broke soon
im not joking either

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

[ QUOTE ]
your running hotter then my mom on a saturday night.

[/ QUOTE ]

this sounds bad

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

Let me address these responses one by one:

"wayyyyyyyy tldr, but if youre beating 1/2 wtf are you playing micros? also, wtf do you care if youre spewing 1/20th of a buy-in"

- I don't know what tldr means (I'm assuming something to do with too detailed/boring), but it's not about the money. It's about the game itself and that I am curious as to why I have an easier time beating betting players with more experience than poor-ass idiots who seem to be drunk/high/coked up most of the time. Plus, I thought the proper way to advance in skill was to utilize BR management and start with the baby games and progress level by level.

PBJaxx - I agree entirely - I'm probably remembering more of the absurd suckouts than victories (as is the way our selective memory works), and that's the approach I take to the micros).

GittyUP - I'm not running hot (or any hotter than usual). My hands hold up about as often as they should, and my reads and recognition of specific plays I've read about seem to work at these levels.

RONitONLINE - i agree - the microstakes are just a crapshoot - i play ABC poker when i dick around in them and still somehow manage to get outdrawn or can't bet people off draws.

SIDE NOTE - I've probably only played 1000-2000 hands at the micro level, so the sample size is small here as well

tufat23 - So you want to go 4 tables, $400 buy-in, plus a $100 cash to me? PM me.

SDFSDF

You're the kind of person that makes this board 90% worthless and useless to people trying to learn the game or ask serious questions.

I make a lot of money in the real world at a real job doing things for a real company that i enjoy doing - interacting with real people I actually meet/see/talk to outside of AIM and a computer desk. As jealous as I am of you probably weighing 250+, making m@d m0ni3$ playing online poker, and thinking you're the $hit - the cash I put into stars is for fun. It's not a matter of whether I win $2 in a micro game or a couple hundred bucks in 1/2. I'm making six figures at 22 (not a brag, I'm sure I'm far less baller than a lot of people on here), but to respond to your statement - I won't be going broke any time soon. OMG, I MIGHT BE POKERSTATS BUSTO soon if you're right, but will I care after the second my final hand is dealt? Nope

Are there any people like me left that still look at poker as a battle of wits? I see it as a badass combination of math, psychology, and acting. It's all about the game to me - I consider it a challenge, like chess, basketball, football or anything that encourages competition. Every time I get outplayed by somebody, or they out level me, I get upset about that - not the money.

Continue flaming please, or God forbid, if somebody wants to give any sort of serious reply or insight to this discussion, I'd be amazed.

let me address each "point" one by one -

you'll be broke soon
im not joking either


As for the complete lack of any serious answers, I got exactly what I expected (a bunch of cocky 2p2's telling me I'm an idiot or using the legendary condescending tone that this site is famous for).

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

if i say u will be broke, will u also write an essay for me too??

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

I actually find 200nl easier than 100nl at times. Players at 100nl do not fold to cbets for one example, if you dont get cards its harder get anywhere.

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

I believe you said it yourself. Players at the highest level have a sort of logic that retards at the micros don't. At that level, people treat money as if it were play money. This simply increases variance. You said you play 1-2 tables at a time, and really, with the way variance is down there, your going to swing a lot. IMO, don't waste your time down there, it might be several thousand more hands before you realize you beat it to turn out a $10 profit.

Crovax

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

[ QUOTE ]
if i say u will be broke, will u also write an essay for me too??

[/ QUOTE ]

nope, in order for me to write an essay you have to be a little more creative than that. just read the essay for the other guy and pretend it applies to you.

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

if small stakes is easier for u than micro limits, u are missing out on one of the most profitable skills in poker .....beating horrible fish

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

i have been trying to teach my friend how to beat online. i kind of provided a tutorial on his new account playing .10/.25nl and proceeded to lose half his bankroll(about $50). could not fold out second pair etc to save my life and couldnt seem to get action when i got a hand. needless to say i felt like a bit of a tool.
i then went home, loaded up my own account and proceeded to win 2.6k playing 2/4nl and 1/2nl. go figure [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

Microstakes Hold Em like 10NL is so freaking easy, but it's also the most boring game in the world (if you're trying to win the most out of it).

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

whats sdfsdf, also pls give ball park region of ure mad monies at your job

kthx

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

spaggy i like the cut of your jib

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

ppl, the answer is very easy. OP: you are shortstacking. 100NL and 200NL players open-raise and 3-bet a much wider range preflop, offering you many more +EV spots.

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

[ QUOTE ]

"ooga booga"

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros. Why
 

Alright Spaggy, I'll bite but I'm sure I won't win any mad monies with my wit.

I also have a great job which I like and make many monies. I play poker for the competitve juice. I refuse to reload so my BR is set and I play accordingly.

Unlike you, I've played online mostly. I'm a marginal winner overall but can win at the micros. If I laid off 400 - 1000NL I'd have a much bigger BR. After a really bad run at 100NL and 50NL, I dropped to 10NL and worked back through 25NL and am in 50NL approaching critical mass for 100NL. Basically, I had to make 10NL work for me as its a competitive goal with myself.


If there was a reason for you to apply yourself at the micros, you'd be able to beat them. It is strictly ABC poker. Yes you can't bet people off a draw, but do you really want to??? I love people chasing 2 psb's to their 8 high flush draw into my set.

I'm surprised based on the fact that you play B&M in 2/5 games and can't see similarities to the micros. Fishy is fishy.

Since Tufat's $100 piqued your interest, make a bet with some of SSNL's finest to play 20,000 hands at micro for an interesting sum and see whether you can beat them.

My guess its simply the interest level. Stakes and competition are meaningless to you in the micros.

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros. Why
 

Spaggy,

My answer was somewhat serious. In general, I don't flame threads like this...I ignore them. You seemed to have put some real thought into your post, so I responded.

I really hope this doesn't turn into a dick waving contest about income guys.

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

[ QUOTE ]

"Bad hand, I fold"
"Good hand, I bet"
"ooga booga"

[/ QUOTE ]

They should think about closing the Micro Forum. This covers it completely.

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros. Why
 

jjb108 - I think you're probably right. Since micros are such trivial sums of money, I probably just subconciously don't try as hard as I do when there's at least a couple of hundred bucks at stake.

PBJaxx - No, I appreciated your answer actually. I think I wrote that part first, then decided to address each point separately and failed to remove my final everyone is an [censored] comment. It was in know way intended towards you, and if it came across that way, I apologize.

I definitely don't want to have an income dick waving contest. If you want to know, I will state that I made 90k last year, and should make about 125k this year (which is more than some, less than some, and I'm sure nothing compared to what some of the respected players on here make playing poker). At 22 (and without a college degree), I'm relatively proud of that figure. If that cat is a good player, I'd love to have the chance to play him for the experience alone, even if I lose all the money (on the condition he records the hand histories and coaches me on his thought process afterwards). I'm all about the competition - I know I'm years away from even considering making poker any sort of reliable income.

After reviewing my rant, it makes me look much more the [censored] than I originally thought. I guess I just expected another tear down session (which I don't think anyone will deny happens on here far too often) that any beginner/intermediate player gets when asking a question on here. I can honestly say that any strategy/hand history post I've made on here has basically yielded the most condescending and uninformative responses I've ever seen on the internet.

So, here is my formal apology for coming across as [censored] to those who didn't deserve my berating rant. Special apology to PBJaxx, because by not reading over my post I unintentionally made it seem like I attacked him, when he actually took the time to read everything.

I best go back to lurking - it seems like every post I make here (whatever my intention is) turns out poorly.

Last time I put real thought into a post about a hand in a live tournament, I got called a moron for 20-30 posts, followed by the admin saying I was "undeniably bad at poker and should stop playing," so since then I've probably had a chip on my shoulder.

I respect a lot of the players on here, I just can't seem to ever get serious advice from anyone (and I'm sure I'm not the only "amateur/intermediate" that feels that way.

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

"Bad hand, I fold"
"Good hand, I bet"
"ooga booga"

[/ QUOTE ]

They should think about closing the Micro Forum. This covers it completely.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't trying to imply that. I was just saying that is generally how you have to play against the calibur of player he was describing.

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros. Why
 

[ QUOTE ]
I respect a lot of the players on here, I just can't seem to ever get serious advice from anyone (and I'm sure I'm not the only "amateur/intermediate" that feels that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats mostly how the responses are for us less frequent posters. You'll need a thick skin. Not every post is good nor draws good responses. I get good responses and I pay attention to those. Some posts get a single one word answer.

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, because there were a lot of replies, but:

If you are winning at higher stakes, and losing at lower, it can sometimes be an indication of too much aggression.

Small stakes = value poker.

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

ive discoverd the same thing spaggy has. recently i bumped up to 100 nl from 25 nl and prob was the best decision ive made in a while. along with the fact closer attention is paid to the game bc of the higher stakes, teh average player at 100 nl seems easier to read and more predictable. but who knows, maybe running good is just ez

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros. Why
 

If I didn't have records proving otherwise I feel like micros kill me too; after a while of playing them even when you are winning it feels like you are losing.

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros. Why
 

futuredoc and octaveshift nailed it, those are the only two relevant points to be made IMO.

OP - lol you crack me up. You come here admitting you can't beat penny ante poker, and then look to battle everyone that laughs at you and start throwing out crap like your salary and individually arguing and flaming everyone who responds. Of course no one wants to give you good replies, you just want to argue and be a prick! I mean, what do you expect when you act like this?

Also - lol live poker, dude can beat 2/5 live and can't beat .01/.02 online.

Edit: obv anyone can beat the micros. If you can't beat em, you're just not playing them right. Obv a typical 10/20 gameplan isn't optimal for .01/.02. Just play <10% VPIP and make huge stupid bets and get paid, or play 100/0 and when you flop big get wild. Never ever ever bluff (or semibluff!)

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, because there were a lot of replies, but:

If you are winning at higher stakes, and losing at lower, it can sometimes be an indication of too much aggression.

Small stakes = value poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is right, if you cant beat the micros you have a leak, and thats not know what players you have to slow down with and valuebet, play a game that maximizes profit with less FE emphasis.

my winrate is higher at these limits because the FE i can couple with my draws and its more reliant on my skill than run of cards.

bottom line is, the the games are tougher, you should be able to beat the micros, if you cant you have many leaks and lacks of correct proper poker logic.

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

[ QUOTE ]
futuredoc and octaveshift nailed it, those are the only two relevant points to be made IMO.

OP - lol you crack me up. You come here admitting you can't beat penny ante poker, and then look to battle everyone that laughs at you and start throwing out crap like your salary and individually arguing and flaming everyone who responds. Of course no one wants to give you good replies, you just want to argue and be a prick! I mean, what do you expect when you act like this?

Also - lol live poker, dude can beat 2/5 live and can't beat .01/.02 online.

Edit: obv anyone can beat the micros. If you can't beat em, you're just not playing them right. Obv a typical 10/20 gameplan isn't optimal for .01/.02. Just play <10% VPIP and make huge stupid bets and get paid, or play 100/0 and when you flop big get wild. Never ever ever bluff (or semibluff!)

[/ QUOTE ]

For the last time, the only reason money outside of poker was even brought in to this thread was to clarify the point that the game to me is not about money - it's about the challenge/enjoyment I get from beating my oppenents (or losing to them and figuring out why). I even stated before I mentioned what I make that I didn't want this to be a dick measuring contest about who makes what. I just wanted to make it clear that I enjoy poker as a GAME, and the money at these stakes is trivial.

I don't come here to pick fights - I come here (like most occasional posters and lurkers) to try to learn from more skilled players who I know are better than me and can offer sincere answers and opinions to questions asked.

If you read the post, the only person I really flamed was the helpful guy whose advice was "you'll be broke soon- seriously." Very insightful and informative. I agreed with a lot of the legitimate answers, and even apologized (some even personally outside of the thread) to anyone I could have come across as a prick to (or who could have construed my response as dickish).

Obviously I'm aware I have a leak in my game that kills me in penny ante games. If I cared about getting laughed at about it I wouldn't have made the title of my thread "I can't beat penny games!". The original purpose of the thread was simply to see if anyone else has had a similar experience. I got legitimate answers from some people (and a few helpful PMs from people who apparently didn't want the rest of you to know they were responding to me seriously), so I thank them for that. It just boggles my mind that so many of the people on here (who obviously had to develop their skills over the years) feel the need to just trash on everybody who asks a "stupid" question or asks if anybody else is having a similar experience. I could have sworn this site was intended to be a community and not a clique.


MODS - if you feel inclined, please feel free to just remove the thread and I'll return to lurking.

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

[ QUOTE ]

I expect about 95% of the reponses to be flames, so please don't hold back. I love getting 2p2 flamed. I will transfer $5 to the best flame I get on this thread, since that's what this site is known for and if get one honest/genuine/helpful reponse I'll be amazed.



[/ QUOTE ]

why do you put that in your post and then get mad?

you probably just suck at poker.

i even know a puerto rican that can beat 1/2 B&M poker.

woogie boogie

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

sarcasm (maybe semi-sarcasm).

Although I like the woogie boogie.

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

[ QUOTE ]
sarcasm (maybe semi-sarcasm).

Although I like the woogie boogie.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, i was serious.

well, except for the part about the puerto rican.

everybody knows they can't play poker, so you probably knew i was joking about that.

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

No, I was implying that I put that in the post sarcastically, because I knew going in to this that people would flame on something.

Or maybe I just got leveled. This thread has gotten way out of hand, and apparently will cost me $1500 in 4 $400 tables with that one guy. This thread is done. A simple question was answered simply by octaveshift, in two lines of text. It just took me acting retarded and 20-30 posts to get it done.

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

easy solution is go to micros and ask for good strategies to beat 10-25NL. You need to play completely differently then even at 100NL

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

[ QUOTE ]
No, I was implying that I put that in the post sarcastically, because I knew going in to this that people would flame on something.

Or maybe I just got leveled. This thread has gotten way out of hand,and apparently will cost me $1500 in 4 $400 tables with that one guy. This thread is done. A simple question was answered simply by octaveshift, in two lines of text. It just took me acting retarded and 20-30 posts to get it done.

[/ QUOTE ]

pm me your account name and pword, i will play for you.

i can beat micro stakes....sometimes.

Killa Kermit

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

lets play a sng right now - i'm game - hit me up on aim - notsteveberman

Re: Serious ?- I\'m beating .5/1 and 1/2 NL online, but spew at micros.
 

[ QUOTE ]
lets play a sng right now - i'm game - hit me up on aim - notsteveberman

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]