AK/AQ How do you handle OOP\'s betting small into a rag flop?
 

I fold to this most of the time, and i'm now wondering if it's the right move. This is something i usually only see from the loose passive guys that play like 60/3/0.75, and it truly baffles me every time.

Say i raise from CO to 4xBB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and BB calls.

Now there's 8.5xBB's in the pot, flop comes

4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB bets 2xBB, hero folds.

My first thought is to raise it up as sort of a cbet, but against the kind of microlimitdonk that would make this bet in the first place, I get worried that they'll just keep calling no matter what they have and i could lose to a pair of 4's. Or i get worried that they've actually hit a set or something and they're trying to min-bet me to death.

So, do i raise this up to see if he actually has a hand? Do i just call with my overcards? Keep folding till i hit a flop? If i raise and he calls does that mean he does have a hand? What can i really put them on? flushdraw? top pair? mid pair? overcards? overpair?

I suppose I could just call and see if i can get a cheap showdown just so i can see what kind of hands he does this with.. shrug!

thoughts? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: AK/AQ How do you handle OOP\'s betting small into a rag flop?
 

Don't over commit with two overcards. If there was a diamond I might peel a card off, but in this case just find a better spot. Its not worth building a big pot w/o a pair

Re: AK/AQ How do you handle OOP\'s betting small into a rag flop?
 

Against a AF of .75 I fold this every time.

Re: AK/AQ How do you handle OOP\'s betting small into a rag flop?
 

Some of them do it with nothing/draws/small pairs, and some of them do it with monsters (atleast what they think are monsters). I just wait untill I have somehow connected with the flop, and then either call them down or raise them, and take a note about it.

Re: AK/AQ How do you handle OOP\'s betting small into a rag flop?
 

easy fold

Re: AK/AQ How do you handle OOP\'s betting small into a rag flop?
 

well, as an isolated event i can see how it's an easy fold. But what about when you're at a table and this is happening constantly? It more or less ruins my cbetting value and forces me to really tighten up in late position pre-flop. Still just gotta wait it out till i hit a flop?

Re: AK/AQ How do you handle OOP\'s betting small into a rag flop?
 

The problem with folding to these micro donk bets is that you wont be able to pick off any reasonable money raising these type of players on the flop, even the somewhat decent players will notice that you'll fold to small donk bets and then they'll CB you tiny.

I see this alot where people are doing this as a bluff, they figure a PFR has a big ace and this flop misses you. I raise alot of these, I also call and fold some. A one time thing yes you can fold this pretty quickly.

Re: AK/AQ How do you handle OOP\'s betting small into a rag flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Against a AF of .75 I fold this every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: AK/AQ How do you handle OOP\'s betting small into a rag flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Against a AF of .75 I fold this every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: AK/AQ How do you handle OOP\'s betting small into a rag flop?
 

You guys realize that someone with a VPIP of 60%, an AF of 0.75 isn't that low right?

Re: AK/AQ How do you handle OOP\'s betting small into a rag flop?
 

What ive found is a lot of players will bet this sort of amount with even ace high and weak kicker sometimes even a King high with maybe one spade. I think its either a raise of fold situation, id be inclined to raise it up........if he reraises in this spot its an instant fold. You need to either bet or fold to find out exactly where you are in the hand. Calling in this spot just isnt a good play IMO.

Re: AK/AQ How do you handle OOP\'s betting small into a rag flop?
 

I think this is an easy call down. Most of the time they just keep mini betting and our outs are good.

Re: AK/AQ How do you handle OOP\'s betting small into a rag flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with folding to these micro donk bets is that you wont be able to pick off any reasonable money raising these type of players on the flop, even the somewhat decent players will notice that you'll fold to small donk bets and then they'll CB you tiny.

I see this alot where people are doing this as a bluff, they figure a PFR has a big ace and this flop misses you. I raise alot of these, I also call and fold some. A one time thing yes you can fold this pretty quickly.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly my thoughts when i made this post. As an isolated event, simple fold.

But once one person does it, everyone notices and i start facing these bets frequently when i raise and theres no facecards on the flop.

And for everyone pointing out the "low" AF in the example.. what would you do if the villain's AF was 1.5 or 2.5? still fold and let them buy your preflop raises every time you look like you missed? All while completely out of position and only risking 1/5th of the pot?

Re: AK/AQ How do you handle OOP\'s betting small into a rag flop?
 

Consider ANY bet of $1 or below some kind of blocking bet or a check and RAISE it up every time, to about 3/4 times thier bet is generally good. You will take the pot down a MASSIVE amount of the time! As soon as they use it as an offensive ploy or reraise you then you be done with the hand!

Re: AK/AQ How do you handle OOP\'s betting small into a rag flop?
 

I'll normally let it go one time but if i observe the guy do it again I will def put in a raise. Make a note and pick a better spot IMO

Re: AK/AQ How do you handle OOP\'s betting small into a rag flop?
 

I usually just ignore bets smaller then 1/4 pot from an OOP when I was PF raiser and c-bet as usual, it usually gives me the pot too.

If he calls, a nonspade comes and he minbets again just call, if the river isn't a spade and he checks then fire again.