New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

I've been invited into a new home game situation. It's a $10 buyin STT with a bunch of drunken clueless people who think calling all ins on the first hand with 85o is a good play.

First problem: Second gets his buyin back as consolation prize, winner gets the rest. This payout stays in place even when they have four or five tables, and they don't allow deals because of some bigoted, backwards beliefs. They're [censored], but they're dead money.

Second problem: Starting stack is 800 or 1000 chips depending on number of players and the drunkenness of the idiots. Blinds start at 25/50 and double every time a player is busted out, capping at 800/800. The average tournament lasts about 15-20 hands because these people don't know how real structures and real poker work.

Third problem: There's at least one mechanic in the game. I've seen poorly stacked decks and a marked deck in play. I've got the cheating figured out, and I'm tempted to take advantage of it rather than risk pissing off a game's worth of union workers by accusing one of cheating.

I know this could be massively profitable despite the absurdly high variance and unpleasant atmosphere. How should I be adapting to this? It seems like too much free money to simply walk away from.

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

Forget about it, enjoy the drinks and coin flips.

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

How bout inviting them to your place for the game? You set the rules, you have your own set of cards, blind structure, and payout.

Other than that, drink plenty and and have some fun.

P [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

depending on the situation, 85 on the first hand of this tournament may not actually be that bad...

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

[ QUOTE ]
How bout inviting them to your place for the game? You set the rules, you have your own set of cards, blind structure, and payout.

Other than that, drink plenty and and have some fun.

P [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Any reasonable structure is likely outside their attention span, even with a 2 hour rebuy period. Transplanting them into a sane environment isn't an option, in part due to lack of a safe, controlled location where any kind of violence from the suckers wouldn't result in severe injury or death to myself, let alone the suckers. These guys allow and encourage every kind of bigotry and hatred short of racism, and even racism is fair game against politically incorrect victims like people of Middle Eastern descent. One of them actually pulled out a photo album of corpse pics that he said his father brought back from Vietnam to try to put an Asian guy on tilt. Also, they're too friggin' retarded to understand the point of payouts beyond the consolation buyin for second place. They have no skill to speak of, and I'm beginning to suspect the structure was designed to compensate for their stupidity.

Cliff notes: I can't change their game or get them to play elsewhere, I need a way to beat them at their own [censored] game.

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

This is not a good game. Find another one or start another group. Sounds like you're wanting to personally challenge your own skills as a player and these guys are not the type of game in which you can do that. It's taken me about three years to break away from a group of guys that played a similar style of poker, I'm still friends with them and occasionally I invite one or two of them over to my place to play in a "structured" atmosphere and they seem to not do as well if you can imagine that. Don't get me wrong, the group of guys I hang around with can get pretty reved up too, I even have a couple of gals that show up and play too, everyone but few drink or smoke, fart and swear, but it's all in good taste (strange sentence I just typed).

I don't have the answer to how you beat them, even if you do have a good session with them, would you go back?

Good Luck!

P [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

No offense, but you should know the answer to this - there really is no solution or adaptation. You have listed every conceivable donk-friendly aspect of poker that exists in this STT, in your opening post. Obviously, there's not much strategy here other than value betting the life out of your hands and getting in a ton preflop with top-5 starting holdings. Simply do this and live with the immediate results, knowing that in the long term, you ought to profit nicely off this.

Maybe see what you can do about talking over the payout structure a bit more. Seems like anyone reasonable would allow more than two players to get paid when there are 40+ entries.

Off topic, but honestly, how sure are you that people are actually fixing the deck here. Somehow I doubt this. I've dealt for years and I can't do this, nor know anyone who can with any consistency. It seems odds that the group of people you describe have an elaborate cheating scam going.

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

This isn't poker. It's gambling.

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

[ QUOTE ]
No offense, but you should know the answer to this - there really is no solution or adaptation. You have listed every conceivable donk-friendly aspect of poker that exists in this STT, in your opening post. Obviously, there's not much strategy here other than value betting the life out of your hands and getting in a ton preflop with top-5 starting holdings. Simply do this and live with the immediate results, knowing that in the long term, you ought to profit nicely off this.

Maybe see what you can do about talking over the payout structure a bit more. Seems like anyone reasonable would allow more than two players to get paid when there are 40+ entries.

Off topic, but honestly, how sure are you that people are actually fixing the deck here. Somehow I doubt this. I've dealt for years and I can't do this, nor know anyone who can with any consistency. It seems odds that the group of people you describe have an elaborate cheating scam going.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure it's an elaborate cheating scam. I'm sure that it's either a bunch of horrendously unlucky donks consistently losing to the host who consistently gets AA/KK/AKs when he deals or a bunch of horrendously retarded donks who can't conceive of their friend cheating them by stacking himself consistent AA/KK/AKs/flopped nut straight with garbage. There's SOME kind of fix in the game, but I think it's the kind a not-so-drunk retard sets against a bunch of really drunk retards.

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

[ QUOTE ]
This isn't poker. It's gambling.

[/ QUOTE ]
Poker is gambling. Accept it and you'll be better off.
Gambling with an edge is still gambling.

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

I play in a similar game. Blinds increase every time someone busts out, donks betting and calling with any two. "I know that I am beat but I have to call" is heard almost every other hand, etc, etc.

Solution for me: don't get too fancy. Play the strong hands hard, see some cheap flops and try to get the most money in the pot when I stand a good chance to win.

Don't bluff much - these guys aren't even thinking about what you might have - "I have an Ace so I'll call."

Call down with more marginal hands - top pair weak kicker, 2nd pair, etc - you'll win more in this kind of environment than you might think. (NOTE: I'm not suggesting this in a game of average or better players, only in a donkfest like he describes and like I am playing.)

When you get a big stack and the blinds are going up, tighten up and get aggressive.

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

Apart from just forgetting about this game, I do have some untested advice.

I would suspect that the golden hand in this game would be AK followed by AQ for multiway pots. For one or two opponents, I would add pairs from middle to higher. With 15-20 hands for an entire tourney, you don't have time to wait for sets, flushes and straights. Top pair and two pair are the hands you are going to have to push and hope for the best.

You are essentially going to have to play a shortstack game. So with those hands above, you are looking to get all your chips in. You can do this by limping and waiting for an expected raise, raising and moving in on any flop, or just moving in preflop. You'll have to decide which of those is best given your current stack and the play of the others.

I don't see any room for poker here. You are basically looking for a chance to double up and then sit tight until you can double up again. You may only need to win three hands to win this tourney.

I would fold most other hands except for some BB play looking for a miracle flop or limping in late position if you feel no raise is coming.

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

Also - expect to get in the with the best hand and get run down. This seems to happen a lot in our game with so many multi way pots.

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

This game has one huge problem: the payout structure.

People going all in with 85 and stuff like that is great for you.

However, having just 1 person make money out of 10 or more people (you mention multiple tables) will not cut it for you in the long run.

Find a game that gives reasonable payouts.

Colima420

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

[ QUOTE ]
Third problem: There's at least one mechanic in the game. I've seen poorly stacked decks and a marked deck in play. I've got the cheating figured out, and I'm tempted to take advantage of it rather than risk pissing off a game's worth of union workers by accusing one of cheating.

[/ QUOTE ][ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure it's an elaborate cheating scam. I'm sure that it's either a bunch of horrendously unlucky donks consistently losing to the host who consistently gets AA/KK/AKs when he deals or a bunch of horrendously retarded donks who can't conceive of their friend cheating them by stacking himself consistent AA/KK/AKs/flopped nut straight with garbage. There's SOME kind of fix in the game, but I think it's the kind a not-so-drunk retard sets against a bunch of really drunk retards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not doing anything about this, or profiting from this, is condoning it IMO. While I could see taking advantage of the cheat, why screw over everyone else who is being cheated?

Your mom isn't going to be happy when I talk to her.

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

[ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure it's an elaborate cheating scam. I'm sure that it's either a bunch of horrendously unlucky donks consistently losing to the host who consistently gets AA/KK/AKs when he deals or a bunch of horrendously retarded donks who can't conceive of their friend cheating them by stacking himself consistent AA/KK/AKs/flopped nut straight with garbage. There's SOME kind of fix in the game, but I think it's the kind a not-so-drunk retard sets against a bunch of really drunk retards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look. Dealing yourself AK, AA or KK everytime is easy. Doing it in a game with nothing but drunk idiots makes it even easier.

Nobody's going to look for him cheating. He wouldn't even have to mark the cards with a bunch of drunks. Just rifle through the deck until he can put the cards he wants on the bottom.

If he's cheating, he has the perfect scenario for it. Bottom dealing, when you're only bottom dealing to one person (yourself) in a room full of drunks is something that is infact soooo easy it almost begs to be done. Not that cheating is right, but, if this guy has AA, KK, or AK EVERYTIME, he's probably been doing it since this game started (which was probably a long time ago) and there's a good chance that you are the first person to ever even get a wiff of his cheating.

Calling out the host will not go down well. Remember you're on his turf and you're going to need nothing short of video evidence to not get your head taken off. Your solutions are as follows:

1.) Cheat (not recommended)

2.) Play the lotto and hope to get heads up with the cheater where you force a cut everytime he deals.

3.) Don't ever play any hands he deals(even if they are premiums)and watch what goes down. Folding AQ when a suspected cheat deals it to you should not be that hard to do.

4.) Just relax. Realize this game is not the WSOP Main Event and have fun. It's only $10. If you have something better to do with your $10 that night, don't play. (And I'm not making fun of the size of the buy-in. One of the most competitive and intense games I've ever played in had a total prize pool of $3.) You have to look at this game as a party and not as a competitive event.

5.) If you can't play and have fun in this atmosphere with these people, or adapt your game to this structure, or control your emotions enough to stay cool when you loose to an 83 then you SHOULD NOT PLAY.

Not everybody that picks up a deck of cards wants to be a master of the game. Suprisingly, there are people who just like to socialize and have a good time. The game is second or third in line.

G O N E F O R E V E R

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

"Not everybody that picks up a deck of cards wants to be a master of the game. Suprisingly, there are people who just like to socialize and have a good time. The game is second or third in line."

And you think you SHOULDN'T say something, or make it obvious what the cheat is doing?

Sorry, I can't agree.

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've been invited into a new home game situation. It's a $10 buyin STT with a bunch of drunken clueless people who think calling all ins on the first hand with 85o is a good play.


Third problem: There's at least one mechanic in the game. I've seen poorly stacked decks and a marked deck in play. I've got the cheating figured out, and I'm tempted to take advantage of it rather than risk pissing off a game's worth of union workers by accusing one of cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]

This could be a very tight group of people that you have been invited to party with. Don't assume that exposing a cheat is going to fare well for you. You are the outsider here. Don't assume, either, that if you suddenly start beating this game with good play you won't be accused of cheating.

My point is, unless you can join in the spirit of the game, I wouldn't play in it.

And, good luck

--klez

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

Obviously, it's already been said, but since the thread is still alive, only one piece of advice is relevant. Find a different game, lose this one from your rotation. You're posting on an advanced strategy forum like 2p2, you shouldn't be a consistent participant in a drunken $10 home game anyway.

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously, it's already been said, but since the thread is still alive, only one piece of advice is relevant. Find a different game, lose this one from your rotation. You're posting on an advanced strategy forum like 2p2, you shouldn't be a consistent participant in a drunken $10 home game anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

This one isn't even in my rotation, thank god. I was invited to it only recently, and one session with these donks seems to be well more than enough.

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

i am not even gunna offer advice to beat a drunken 10 dollar buy in game, if u need to ask this u most likely shouldnt be playing poker lol

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

[ QUOTE ]
i am not even gunna offer advice to beat a drunken 10 dollar buy in game, if u need to ask this u most likely shouldnt be playing poker lol

[/ QUOTE ]

I can beat drunks in normal games without a problem. What I needed help with was the ridiculously stupid structure and the mechanic. Next time, maybe you could read the thread before posting useless crapaments?

Re: New home donkament I can\'t seem to adapt to
 

Are we being leveled? I see no benefit whatsoever in playing in this game.