prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

Havent played with him much on ftp, no clue who he is but his name is red so i figure some of you know him. Weird river spot for me.

Effective stacks 2k, I raise KTs in the hijack he calls in the CO.

Flop is QJ3 with two clubs, I bet 120, he calls.

Turn is the Ace of clubs completing my straight and the flush. I just check since he seemed to ponder the flop for a while, which can be a flush draw considering a raise, etc. He bets 350 pretty much instantly.

River bricks off, I check, he instantly pushes 1400 into about 1k. I?

James

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

Fold.

And when I say fold, that = end of thread because I don't fold ever.

He has the flush 90% of the time here.

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

I don't really like your line of c/c turn, check river

as played I think you definitely have to call? Can't he be value shoving a worse hand here? Your hand is very underrepresented.

I don't know this player at all though.

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really like your line of c/c turn, check river

as played I think you definitely have to call? Can't he be value shoving a worse hand here? Your hand is very underrepresented.

I don't know this player at all though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I mean I didnt consider that he'd be value shoving a worse hand ever because I think he's always 100% of the time raising the flop with a set, so we can rule that out completely. I suppose hypothetically he has no reason to not v-bet AQ, but that's about it I think. I think most decent regular types' range here is a former made hand like QT or QK that is now a bluff, the same hand as me, T9, or a flush. I also think the slight over-bet push on the river is far more likely a real hand than a bluff, as bluffs tend to fire like 800 in this spot in my experience.

James

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold.

And when I say fold, that = end of thread because I don't fold ever.

He has the flush 90% of the time here.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with jman here. 90% might not even be high enough.. this is a clear fold in my book, and i also never click the fold button.

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

i never fold either, but ben has the flush here 100% of the time, so i might consider a fold

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

Def. a fold.

It's pretty much a question of... what do you think he is floating this flop with, such that he bets both the turn and river?

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

i agree w/ jman just cause he's jman.

no but honestly, given the villain i agree.

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

Yeah I thought it might be simple. I folded fast but was telling a regular in that game about it and he lol'd at me. oh well thanks for making me feel better!

James

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold.

And when I say fold, that = end of thread because I don't fold ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't fold ever. But this time you would.

I don't call ever. Does that mean this time I should?

:-)

Tommy

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

On the flop, what are the 2 clubs? Depending on which two that changes villians range a little bit. I mean of course it's still possible he calls with 98 or 78c or whatever, but it factors in a little here.

Your hand is so under-repped here, I dunno. The turn check is debatable, but why not bet/fold river? Do you really think it's not believable that you value bet a set here? I just have a sick feeling he put you on KK.

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

[ QUOTE ]
On the flop, what are the 2 clubs? Depending on which two that changes villians range a little bit. I mean of course it's still possible he calls with 98 or 78c or whatever, but it factors in a little here.

Your hand is so under-repped here, I dunno. The turn check is debatable, but why not bet/fold river? Do you really think it's not believable that you value bet a set here? I just have a sick feeling he put you on KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that if he put me on KK a bet of 800 would get the same job done that his all in bet would. On the flop, the Q was a club, and the rag was a club I believe. I mean I think it's reasonable that he could have been bluffing, but bet sizes(smallish turn bet that looks like it doesnt want to scare me, combined with river overbet now that I have shown I have something that can call the turn) seem to dictate otherwise if he is decent.

James

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

hrm i wonder if he is the Broberts who used to play on party and now plays on ub

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

Well, you check/called the turn and checked the river. It's very viable that you still have a strong enough hand that villian believes you plan on check/calling, so I wouldn't automatically say in villians eyes that you're always folding to a near pot sized bet on the end, but a shove on that board makes a two pair or better hand fall more into the fold category.

In real time, I likely fold here too, but I'd say it's really damn close. I don't know your opponent though either.

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

[ QUOTE ]
hrm i wonder if he is the Broberts who used to play on party and now plays on ub

[/ QUOTE ]

I've hurd he's Eric Roberts brother

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

I know the opponent very well and this is a very easy river fold. I'd prob bet/fold the turn against him on turn, but a check call check fold line is also viable. ben plays pretty solid every once in a while getting caught in a big bluff but compared to online pros he is very tight postflop in terms of his aggression.

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

An interview I did with Ben Roberts this summer during the WSOP. http://pokerworks.com/article-695.html

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

[ QUOTE ]
An interview I did with Ben Roberts this summer during the WSOP. http://pokerworks.com/article-695.html

[/ QUOTE ]


cliff notes: famed European cash game player who could teach everyone here a thing or two...

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

Bet/fold turn is certainly better than c/c, right?

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

Craig,

Great article; thanks for the link.

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bet/fold turn is certainly better than c/c, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

We're not playing limit

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bet/fold turn is certainly better than c/c, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

We're not playing limit

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. Bet/fold lines are not as bad in NL.

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bet/fold turn is certainly better than c/c, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

We're not playing limit

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. Bet/fold lines are not as bad in NL.

[/ QUOTE ]

I considered a bet-fold, but didnt know what kind of player he was and wanted to feign weakness at the Ac - figuring he wouldnt likely have a hand with a lone club after the flop action. I was prepared to call a moderately sized river bet - figuring a turned 2 pair was quite possible. But I dunno, something about the exact way it played out + the timing of his bets made it a fold for me.

James

Re: prob a simple hand vs. ben roberts
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know the opponent very well and this is a very easy river fold. I'd prob bet/fold the turn against him on turn, but a check call check fold line is also viable. ben plays pretty solid every once in a while getting caught in a big bluff but compared to online pros he is very tight postflop in terms of his aggression.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is spot on, i've played a ton with BR and he's good, but doesn't get out of line all that much and is going to have it here